BC Coastal Soccer League

[easoccer]

In u17 div 2 you have an Abby team.

League
7-0
7-2
12-0
6-1

Cup
6-1
5-0
3-1

This team was tiered down after 2-3 games are were basically gifted the league and cup.

 

[TKBC]

I said I dont mind if they are unbeaten, but not by large margins of victory. Conversely I dont mind a winless team hanging on if the margins are very narrow.

My issue is a gold team losing 2 or 3 games, getting tiered down and then winning by 5 goal margins. In that case the team needs to be reassessed.

Undefeated teams are pretty much guaranteed to have a GD of over 30 as over a 15 game season that averages only a 2-0 win

Re-tiering after 2-3 games is....ill-advised to put it mildly.

 

[TKBC]

In u17 div 2 you have an Abby team.

League
7-0
7-2
12-0
6-1

Cup
6-1
5-0
3-1

This team was tiered down after 2-3 games are were basically gifted the league and cup.

I imagine they are as bored and frustrated as their opponents.

 

[easoccer]

I imagine they are as bored and frustrated as their opponents.

Thats comforting then.

 

[4_the_kids]

Thats comforting then.

That team hasn't played a team above 7th in the division. See what happens when they play other teams near the top. Though 32 goals in 4 goals is a bit ridiculous you will find this in almost every division.

 

[easoccer]

That team hasn't played a team above 7th in the division. See what happens when they play other teams near the top. Though 32 goals in 4 goals is a bit ridiculous you will find this in almost every division.

They played gac won 6-1 and sdu with a 5-0 score. In cup. Sdu beat both bct and ccb jets before tiering so even at 6th is a good team.

Regardless I agree its too common and situations like these should be looked at to see whats best for the kids.

 

[TKBC]

Don't feel bad guys, it's not just BCCSL that tiers teams poorly. My own clubs u11 tier 2 team has been bumped up to tier 1. They've won 2 tier 2 games.....makes literally zero sense. They have to play a tier 1 team this weekend and hope everything gets shuffled after Christmas holidays.

Again, give this organizational control over to the TD's. Get it out of the hands of people who have never seen these kids play.

 

[hervb]

The team described below also lost a game 9-2 to a division 1 team. Some teams can be found in no mans land, too strong for one division, perhaps not strong enough for a higher one.

In u17 div 2 you have an Abby team.

League
7-0
7-2
12-0
6-1

Cup
6-1
5-0
3-1

This team was tiered down after 2-3 games are were basically gifted the league and cup.

 

[hervb]

as a follow up this is why the first attempt at splitting teams by strength versus geography was the correct approach. This team would be well suited in a G2 group.

The team described below also lost a game 9-2 to a division 1 team. Some teams can be found in no mans land, too strong for one division, perhaps not strong enough for a higher one.

 

[easoccer]

as a follow up this is why the first attempt at splitting teams by strength versus geography was the correct approach. This team would be well suited in a G2 group.

Maybe with metro joining they need to go 8 divisions and a more fluid approach to tiering. With the end game being that where you end up in dec decides your place in league cup. League cup should start in jan. I think playing a cup game after 2-3 preseason games isnt really fair either.

 

[TKBC]

The team described below also lost a game 9-2 to a division 1 team. Some teams can be found in no mans land, too strong for one division, perhaps not strong enough for a higher one.

And this can also happen moving a top gold team to metro. Again tiers can't be based purely on results.

 

[TKBC]

as a follow up this is why the first attempt at splitting teams by strength versus geography was the correct approach. This team would be well suited in a G2 group.

Have to get rid of this G1-G2 nonsense. Call them div 1-2-3-4 etc. Either you are top tier (gold) or you aren't. Let's not mislead our players and parents.

 

[TKBC]

Maybe with metro joining they need to go 8 divisions and a more fluid approach to tiering. With the end game being that where you end up in dec decides your place in league cup. League cup should start in jan. I think playing a cup game after 2-3 preseason games isnt really fair either.

This is exactly how 5 District has been doing it. Select divisions. Some teams would get re-tiered after 5 games or so, but generally divisions remained the same. Then they created groups of 6 based on season standings to create the League Championship Series. So every team was playing a league cup round robin vs. teams of similar strength (based on standings anyway) starting January (no more league games). It was very effective and well done.

 

[Coach Ian]

Well I've said it all along, that they should just fold Metro! I believe now, they should also disband the Vancouver and Burnaby teams and send those players back to there last clubs! Those teams are made up of players from the various teams in Vancouver and Burnaby. What would be the point of keeping those 2 teams?

Coquitlam, Richmond, North Van, Poco, Port Moody, West Van, They all support their own Metro teams.
Where Vancouver and Burnaby are supported by all the clubs in their area.

I think they should also lower or eliminate the out of district players a team can have in their roster! Presently it's 5. I think they should lower it to 2 or even none.

Maybe they should follow the Lacrosse model with players playing out of district. Where players that have played in a district they have lived for more that 2 years and moved to another district they can be grandfathered to play in the same district.

The way it is now, you have players going for try-outs all over the place. Because they don't make Gold or even Metro on a Vancouver team, they go to Try-outs in Burnaby or Richmond, to try to make one of those teams!

Just my thoughts any ways!

Cheers,
Ian

 

[jmoulins]

I think there's altogether too much emphasis on tiering of players and using scores as a measuring stick in the development of young players.

Our team finished at the top of their Gold 2 division last season. We had to choose between Silver or Gold this season as there is no Gold 2. We chose to play Gold, and we got absolutely hammered the first 4 games of the season. Some of the guys were discouraged, but we could see that the game at this level was much faster than they were used to, so we adjusted.
We convinced some of the guys to play positions they'd never played before. We changed tactics, started using a different system, and the results have been great. We won 2 of our next 4 games and were competitive in the others.
Our confidence is soaring, and our guys have learned more already this season about winning, losing and team play than i could have hoped for.

More than half our team played at silver and bronze levels 2 or 3 seasons ago because they were arbitrarily pigeon-holed moving from house leagues to divisional play. Many of the "stronger" players, their friends who went to metro or higher leagues are out of the game, burned out at 14 or 15 years old. You see those players on high school teams, where they're playing for fun again, back with their friends and away from demanding coaches and parents.

We should get rid of Metro and whatever they're calling the EA soccer league these days.
I'd like to see a system where the kids aren't tiered at all until 12 or 13. Then, let them choose whether they want to play "competitive" or "rec" soccer. I think the players would figure out pretty quickly for themselves where they fit, and a lot more kids would keep playing soccer longer.

The goal should be to keep all players playing longer.

The BC Soccer system we have now seems designed to feed the fantasies of unrealistic parents and protect the jobs of a growing number of paid coaches, many of whom do more harm than good.

Meanwhile our team is chomping at the bit to get back to playing games, with the new goal of finishing at .500 for the season.

 

[TKBC]

Well I've said it all along, that they should just fold Metro! I believe now, they should also disband the Vancouver and Burnaby teams and send those players back to there last clubs! Those teams are made up of players from the various teams in Vancouver and Burnaby. What would be the point of keeping those 2 teams?

Coquitlam, Richmond, North Van, Poco, Port Moody, West Van, They all support their own Metro teams.
Where Vancouver and Burnaby are supported by all the clubs in their area.

I think they should also lower or eliminate the out of district players a team can have in their roster! Presently it's 5. I think they should lower it to 2 or even none.

Maybe they should follow the Lacrosse model with players playing out of district. Where players that have played in a district they have lived for more that 2 years and moved to another district they can be grandfathered to play in the same district.

The way it is now, you have players going for try-outs all over the place. Because they don't make Gold or even Metro on a Vancouver team, they go to Try-outs in Burnaby or Richmond, to try to make one of those teams!

Just my thoughts any ways!

Cheers,
Ian

Why fold metro? To reinvent the wheel? Just adjust and improve it.

District-based teams are reasonable at that level of play to feed into BCSPL (which should also remain top tier, with adjustments).

What's wrong with kids trying different programs? Boundaries should be eliminated so families can find the program that works for them (and so the best really are filtered into the top tiers).

 

[easoccer]

This is exactly how 5 District has been doing it. Select divisions. Some teams would get re-tiered after 5 games or so, but generally divisions remained the same. Then they created groups of 6 based on season standings to create the League Championship Series. So every team was playing a league cup round robin vs. teams of similar strength (based on standings anyway) starting January (no more league games). It was very effective and well done.

Except there is no d5 anymore. And d5 did not have a good record of tiering either. But cup play set up was definitely better.

 

[TKBC]

Except there is no d5 anymore. And d5 did not have a good record of tiering either. But cup play set up was definitely better.

Indeed - d5 is now 3 district and the tiering I've experienced has been done quite poorly.

You seem quite aggravated by the whole thing. I hope you are talking to your club so they can be a voice in the decision-making conversations about these league set-ups.

 

[easoccer]

Indeed - d5 is now 3 district and the tiering I've experienced has been done quite poorly.

You seem quite aggravated by the whole thing. I hope you are talking to your club so they can be a voice in the decision-making conversations about these league set-ups.

No. Im good. Im just taking part in the conversations here. Im not coaching this year and my son is playing for Rich so he gets to hear me complain. Lol

 

[TKBC]

I think there's altogether too much emphasis on tiering of players and using scores as a measuring stick in the development of young players.

Many of the "stronger" players, their friends who went to metro or higher leagues are out of the game, burned out at 14 or 15 years old. You see those players on high school teams, where they're playing for fun again, back with their friends and away from demanding coaches and parents.

I'd like to see a system where the kids aren't tiered at all until 12 or 13. Then, let them choose whether they want to play "competitive" or "rec" soccer. I think the players would figure out pretty quickly for themselves where they fit, and a lot more kids would keep playing soccer longer.

Meanwhile our team is chomping at the bit to get back to playing games, with the new goal of finishing at .500 for the season.

I agree. Teams can't be tiered based on results.

Kids quitting at 14-15 is not unusual, regardless of their apparent ability - let's not put all the blame on coaches and parents. Kids quit for many reasons. Though when I hear BCSPL has a mandated fitness session each week - that'd drive me to quit too.

I am hearing the tiering system is gone next year (or year after?) for kids u12 and under. Others have suggested BCSPL not start until 15-16 yrs of age. That I definitely agree with.

A 50-50 season is pretty much perfect for kids - they get an education in every experience.