Why No Metro Players on BC Provincial Teams?

[TKBC]

@CanadianSpur - you make good points. I realize them, but something has to be done to get all of the top players in the top league, I think.

 

[4_the_kids]

@CanadianSpur - you make good points. I realize them, but something has to be done to get all of the top players in the top league, I think.

Indeed, though I don't think its just about money. There are many pieces to this equation. Parent education, coach education,player education, soccer community mentality, the mentality of those outside the community. Unfortunately there is will always be really skilled kids missed, or who choose not to play at various levels for whatever reason. We need to develop the two streams , competitive and recreational and that will help, its is happening at the up to U12 level but once BCSPL comes in at U13 development for anything under it seems to be missing . I would like to see BCSPL intake move to U15 but that is another story...It is slowly changing and there is definitely momentum happening, soccer has never been more relevant and its exciting to be part of that movement.

 

[TKBC]

Absolutely. Kids will be missed or simply choose not to play. That's a different issue.

I know it's not just money. I know plenty of kids who have chosen not to play BCSPL due to personality conflicts with the coach, for example.

I think if BCSPL coaches were more deeply connected to the MSL and Div 1 programs you would see far greater interest in BCSPL. In my district the BCSPL program isolates itself. Partly due to geography. But there are ways around that and other ways to stay connected and build bridges with the feeder clubs. If these bridges were being built you would see greater support for the top tier in our province, I'm sure. And rightly so - it's the top tier, and the league itself is a great idea. It just needs some adjusting.

I'd love to hear more about this BCSPL intake being moved to u15!

 

[CanadianSpur]

Absolutely. Kids will be missed or simply choose not to play. That's a different issue.

I know it's not just money. I know plenty of kids who have chosen not to play BCSPL due to personality conflicts with the coach, for example.

I think if BCSPL coaches were more deeply connected to the MSL and Div 1 programs you would see far greater interest in BCSPL. In my district the BCSPL program isolates itself. Partly due to geography. But there are ways around that and other ways to stay connected and build bridges with the feeder clubs. If these bridges were being built you would see greater support for the top tier in our province, I'm sure. And rightly so - it's the top tier, and the league itself is a great idea. It just needs some adjusting.

I'd love to hear more about this BCSPL intake being moved to u15!

I"d love to see the bridges built between feeder clubs but far to often its the feeder clubs that are building the walls. The petty jealousies between clubs really do hold us back.

MLS shouldn't be an entity unto itself, IMO. I'd prefer to have it abolished and BCSLP expanded to included a larger roster at each club with a first team and a reserve team with players being able to freely move between the two without permit or other bureaucracy. Every player would train together and each week selected to play either in the first team or the reserves. This way more players are getting training from (what we hope to be) the top coaches. Hopefully it would also help to reduces the territoriality that exist between "rival" leagues.

 

[TKBC]

I think Fraser Valley is fortunate with regards to building bridges, at least my club that is a feeder seems to reach out to the FVP club on a regular basis, but I can't speak for the other partners. Although I have no reason to believe they are any different than my club. It has, unfortunately, been my experience it is the FVP that has isolated itself from the feeders but this could be simply my own experience, and also down to geography (which is a huge hurdle and not FVP or the feeder clubs fault).

I agree MSL-BCSPL should be linked. Although creating "breakaway" leagues is not collaborative, if BCSPL were to establish a 2nd division and require it's BCSPL franchises to create a "reserve" league for example, but make it open to other clubs (ie, Central City) who can easily put together teams competitive at the MSL level then you would fairly quickly see the end of MSL, but a more cohesive developmental pathway.

 

[4_the_kids]

Reserves would be an interesting idea , there would need to be a reserve league so kids actually play otherwise they will just go to a lower level.
The hierarchy is broken in that there is only 8 BCSPL franchises being run be community clubs. I have mentioned before and still believe the BCSPL franchises should not be part of any community club, they need to stand on there own and develop working relationships with the community clubs. This would eliminate the walls of the feeder club , as now you have to have quality programming and not just be reaching for a BCSPL franchise. We have talked about the need for two streams competitive and recreational , perhaps there are three streams the third being high performance /elite.
So all community clubs would support the two stream system, while separate identities would run the high performance/elite stream ( this would be the current high performance / BCSPL , Provincial HP, whitecaps academy, youth nation teams) With the franchises having no connection to community clubs they would arguably have to do a better job of scouting, talent identification and open working relationships with all community teams, and perhaps transfer/ finder fees? The community clubs would be able to offer more focuses programming for the competitive stream , currently at U13 development stops for players in Metro . Div 1 for example . More clear hierarchy. Thoughts?

 

[TKBC]

I am not sure what you mean that development stops at u13? I imagine every club, just like mine, has an "academy" night when kids in select soccer can attend a 3rd training session with a staff coach. Seems to be pretty standard practice.

I appreciate the discussion of solutions to make the options better. It's a nice one.

I'll make one suggestion re: your pathway - HPP is not equal to Whitecaps. Whitecaps is a pretty clear step above HPP. The rest makes perfect sense. We do have rec and competitive pathways now, as all well know, but it seems the competitive stream has far too many tiers. Div 3 in district 5, for example, is not "competitive" by anyone's definition that I've spoken with. They don't even compete for the provincial B cup. So why label them as "select"?

 

[LFC]

I think Fraser Valley is fortunate with regards to building bridges, at least my club that is a feeder seems to reach out to the FVP club on a regular basis, but I can't speak for the other partners. Although I have no reason to believe they are any different than my club. It has, unfortunately, been my experience it is the FVP that has isolated itself from the feeders but this could be simply my own experience, and also down to geography (which is a huge hurdle and not FVP or the feeder clubs fault).

I agree MSL-BCSPL should be linked. Although creating "breakaway" leagues is not collaborative, if BCSPL were to establish a 2nd division and require it's BCSPL franchises to create a "reserve" league for example, but make it open to other clubs (ie, Central City) who can easily put together teams competitive at the MSL level then you would fairly quickly see the end of MSL, but a more cohesive developmental pathway.

We all realize the need for a big change in BC Youth Soccer and there,s some great suggestions on this forum.
As i,ve posted beforethe boys Metro Leage is watered down now and the top half div 1 teams would easily beat the bottom half Metro teams . Either scrap Metro and make everything below BCSPL Divisional or as TKBC suggests create a reserve BCSPL Leage [ call it BCSPL 1 ] with bigger clubs like CCB getting a chance to add teams into the reserve Leage .

 

[easoccer]

I am not sure what you mean that development stops at u13? I imagine every club, just like mine, has an "academy" night when kids in select soccer can attend a 3rd training session with a staff coach. Seems to be pretty standard practice.

I appreciate the discussion of solutions to make the options better. It's a nice one.

I'll make one suggestion re: your pathway - HPP is not equal to Whitecaps. Whitecaps is a pretty clear step above HPP. The rest makes perfect sense. We do have rec and competitive pathways now, as all well know, but it seems the competitive stream has far too many tiers. Div 3 in district 5, for example, is not "competitive" by anyone's definition that I've spoken with. They don't even compete for the provincial B cup. So why label them as "select"?

Div 3 may not be classified as development but many teams from the top of div 3 have moved into div 2 over the past couple of years and landed mid pack so I wouldnt be so narrow m8nded about it.

 

[TKBC]

Div 3 may not be classified as development but many teams from the top of div 3 have moved into div 2 over the past couple of years and landed mid pack so I wouldnt be so narrow m8nded about it.

There are always exceptions.

Div 2, for me, should not be in the competitive stream either. Not that some teams in D2 don't try to progress and take the game seriously, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Having seen "bottom feeder" D1 teams cake-walk over top D2 teams I think that D1 being the bottom tier of competitive soccer makes sense. Some would argue D1 shouldn't be in the competitive ladder too....there are always exceptions etc, but lines have to be drawn.

 

[easoccer]

In terms of "club" soccer I am quite content with house through gold as the divisions and anything in club should be considered recreational

Lets be honest in that the majority of the players, including metro are probably not destined for a career after u18.

This is where the majority of players are and thats where a club should focus its efforts. If a really special player comes along the club should put in a good effort to place him/her in a program that specializes in the high performance player.

High performance clubs should be actively scouting and not relying on club coaches to put the player forward.

Alliances between leagues should be made.

 

[TKBC]

I agree there is a recreational aspect to Gold. But there is also a large contingent in that division that is competitive and regularly provides players to BCSPL and MSL. It must be in the competitive stream as 3rd tier.

But, your remark about post-u18 and the lack of players moving on to play senior soccer is both concerning and true. It's also why I ask why people are spending so much money on youth soccer when it goes nowhere. That would change with a nationwide semi-pro circuit supporting a fully pro circuit.

 

[easoccer]

Im not saying that they are not actually competitive, just that in the whole picture maybe they arent. You will have "competitive" teams in each tier reletive to their competition.

D1 should be run strictly to house those players that cant make metro and metro for the players that cant reach bcspl. coaches and clubs should do everything in their power to move qualified players upward. Build a club reputation through player promotion, not 12-0 seasons.

This would take a lot of work to change the mindset of coaches who feel the player is theirs. For that I am also sometimes guilty. But it needs to change.

District 5 or similar, for example, should be considered recreational or community. The majority of all youth play in these levels and it should be a clubs #1 priority because without them the clubs would not exist.

Metro, being the top level at club is the program that should feed bcspl, and bcspl whitecaps etc.

 

[4_the_kids]

D1 should be run strictly to house those players that cant make metro and metro for the players that cant reach bcspl. coaches and clubs should do everything in their power to move qualified players upward. Build a club reputation through player promotion, not 12-0 seasons.

This would take a lot of work to change the mindset of coaches who feel the player is theirs. For that I am also sometimes guilty. But it needs to change..

Exactly!, this is the biggest challenge and it goes along with changing the mindset of the whole soccer community.

 

[TKBC]

Im not saying that they are not actually competitive, just that in the whole picture maybe they arent. You will have "competitive" teams in each tier reletive to their competition.

D1 should be run strictly to house those players that cant make metro and metro for the players that cant reach bcspl. coaches and clubs should do everything in their power to move qualified players upward. Build a club reputation through player promotion, not 12-0 seasons.

This would take a lot of work to change the mindset of coaches who feel the player is theirs. For that I am also sometimes guilty. But it needs to change.

District 5 or similar, for example, should be considered recreational or community. The majority of all youth play in these levels and it should be a clubs #1 priority because without them the clubs would not exist.

Metro, being the top level at club is the program that should feed bcspl, and bcspl whitecaps etc.

I understand your perspective. I just disagree. I say the "competitive" stream should be 3 tiers. BCSPL-MSL-D1/Gold. Rec starting at D2/silver. Rename them BCSPL 1-2-3, and then have standards for each division, reducing those standards each tier down. Rec soccer would be the bare minimum "standards" that are out there right now.

You won't find a community, in my district at least, that doesn't want it's kids promoted to MSL or BCSPL (whichever is appropriate for that kid) but I know other communities have a different reputation. That's unfortunate. That said, cost-time-benefit analysis does mean that some kids that are good enough for BCSPL simply shouldn't be in the league in my district. For example, would I pay $2500 (plus other expenses) and 1.5hours drive time x3/week for practices (then add game time into that) at the very small off-chance my kid gets picked-up by the Whitecaps or gets a college scholarship equivalent to the financial output to be in the league? Not unless I had that disposable income. Would rather help my kid play a decent level of soccer, but also have time for friends, family, school, and other interests. If my kid was genuinely good enough for the Whitecaps etc....then yes, I'd probably take the financial "risk" to put my kid in that league. I think this comes from my own childhood when I asked dad to put me in hockey. He said "no, it costs too much, pick something else." I pouted for a day, picked something (a few things actually!) else to do and had a perfectly happy/normal childhood.

 

[TKBC]

Exactly!, this is the biggest challenge and it goes along with changing the mindset of the whole soccer community.

Keep in mind that a team that goes 12-0-0 in a league may be a bottom-table team in the league above them. I've seen teams destroy silver, only to get rolled over with minimal effort by middling gold teams come cup time.

 

[easoccer]

Thats why I advocate moving the best players up, maybe not the team. That 12-0 team could have 1 or 2 players dominating and bringing the team along with them.

 

[TKBC]

Thats why I advocate moving the best players up, maybe not the team. That 12-0 team could have 1 or 2 players dominating and bringing the team along with them.

Absolutely. Maybe the player simply does not want to move up, maybe they can't get to the training location of the team above them, maybe they can't afford it, maybe they don't like the kids or the coach on the team above them. There are loads of reasons. Can't have a blanket rule or assume clubs are holding kids back.

 

[easoccer]

I advocate promoting kids if possible. I never said anyone was holding people back. And I did say for me at least its hard to let go sometimes. But it is better for the player.