Private Academy Integration

[TKBC]

The BMX scenario is terrible, it's CyclingBC (same as BCSA) dictating what happens when there are other products that are better. I think you've mis-understood my post.

It would appear so.

BCSA dictates the pathway - as they should. What we don't need is the American system where they have competing pathways etc. Not that I don't have criticisms of our pathway, I do.

 

[LosBlancos]

I'm sorry TKBC, my post is disjointed and doesn't make the point I was trying to achieve, and it doesn't appear I can edit. I agree that BCSA needs to dictate the pathway, it was more the point that if others provide a good product that improves the overall quality of the sport, it needs to be utilized instead of neglected.

 

[TKBC]

I agree that BCSA needs to dictate the pathway, it was more the point that if others provide a good product that improves the overall quality of the sport, it needs to be utilized instead of neglected.

I agree.

Academies should be embraced.

 

[Alex Polevoy]

Field allocation challenges maybe?

because non profit clubs run by BC Soccer, that are part of association or district (to enter one you need current district members to vote to approve" Good luck"), get preferential treatment on the fields and have discounted rate. I know few people, Like Rob Friend tried to look at academy set up, but could not get fields or were offered them at 3 times the cost of the "non profit" club.

 

[TKBC]

because non profit clubs run by BC Soccer, that are part of association or district (to enter one you need current district members to vote to approve" Good luck"), get preferential treatment on the fields and have discounted rate. I know few people, Like Rob Friend tried to look at academy set up, but could not get fields or were offered them at 3 times the cost of the "non profit" club.

I can certainly believe the increased non-profit issue happening - might only occur in 1 city and not another, who knows. But, I have become aware (as have many others) that if your club/program does not include a majority of participants from the city in which you are renting the pitch you may get denied as well. This is logical in that the fields are meant for it's citizens as that's who pays for them. For me though, I want the fields paid for - I don't care who pays for them

What people need to do, I think, is create NFP academies. People have the misconception that NFP's can't have paid staff (which if true then the clubs wouldn't have TD's etc that they do have). People also believe NFP's can't make profit - they certainly can. The issue is you have to have a plan for how you will invest those profits back into the program - that can be over a period of time (ie, Foothills building an impressive indoor facility), or short term (equipment).

 

[easoccer]

Why shouldn't NFP get cheaper rates? FP's purpose is to make money. Part of a cities agenda is leisure access, thus its important for them to encourage ALL people to get involved, not just the people who can afford to go to private academies, and to do this they need to discount field space. Also the NFP clubs have been around a long time and most likely have grandfathered rates. Who's to say if an FP set up, endured a season or two of the non desirable rates, prove themselves an asset to the community, that in time their rates wouldn't also lower.

 

[TKBC]

There's two sides to every coin, of course.

Whitecaps are setting up an academy in Abbotsford this year for u9-12. I wonder if they are being charged triple the field rental rates

 

[easoccer]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I was watching practice at Coastal. on one section they have u9 pds, and next to them they have u9 house (which is everything not pds).

Watching the pds team you can clearly see they have staff coaches, team coaches, and assistants. The practice is structured from start to finish. All players are in full gear and look the part. Proper warm up, proper skills training, progression, and focus. Obviously the players are selected and have demonstrated some form of ability at this young age. They are fully involved and having fun. They have 2 practices per week.

Now the house players are under the direction of a volunteer coach. This coach has enthusiasm and is very friendly. On her team, you can also see that there are some very good, enthusiastic players. The focus is more on fun. The warm up is very basic, there are delays between drills, and there is little progression. 1 practice per week.

Now, my point isn't to talk down the house coach. I have every bit of respect for her and what she is doing. My point is that at this young stage there should be more emphasis on ALL teams to start their soccer career with the same focus that the PDS gets. All house coaches should be encouraged to follow a similar program, within reason. There are players in this group that can become just as good, if not better, than those is pds at 8 years. There should be club staff on the field at all times monitoring player development. Yes fun should be a MAJOR part of the process, but development of players should be the clubs number one priority.

And, I as a parent would have no problem paying a bit extra to make sure that this happens. What I cant do is pay upwards to $1700/year to a FP. Out out my budget I'm afraid.

 

[TKBC]

You are absolutely correct re: the u9's. Question, what does PDS stand for?

My club was/is doing the same re: his select/house players. As a result, the club has allocated a staff coach for u7-10 HOUSE to see each team at least once every three weeks and give them instruction via staff coach, but the rest of the time they work with a volunteer coach. I don't know how often they train at that age/house level. I hope it's twice per week.

All players need development - we can't start limiting our player pool at 6-7-8 years old! We simply don't have the depth of players in this country to do that. I do understand separating skill level, ambition....but not limiting who has access to quality training and who doesn't. For me once every three weeks is only a start, and will discuss with my TD throughout the year.

 

[southsloper]

Heh, I was also wondering wgat PDS stood for. Maybe we need a glossary discussion group or a FAQ section, as I've seen TLA's (that's Three Letter Acronyms) used by posters here that I'd never encountered before. Kinda like trying to figure out what my kids are texting each other...

You are absolutely correct re: the u9's. Question, what does PDS stand for?

My club was/is doing the same re: his select/house players. As a result, the club has allocated a staff coach for u7-10 HOUSE to see each team at least once every three weeks and give them instruction via staff coach, but the rest of the time they work with a volunteer coach. I don't know how often they train at that age/house level. I hope it's twice per week.

All players need development - we can't start limiting our player pool at 6-7-8 years old! We simply don't have the depth of players in this country to do that. I do understand separating skill level, ambition....but not limiting who has access to quality training and who doesn't. For me once every three weeks is only a start, and will discuss with my TD throughout the year.

 

[Admin]

player development system is my guess

 

[easoccer]

player development system is my guess

yes, development.

 

[Nate]

I applaud the house coaches that take their time volunteering.

I'm not sure I understand easoccer's point. House league I pay $250? (there abouts) for the fall/winter season, this includes sponsored jerseys and field / equipment. My only expectation is my child will develop an interest for the sport, or at a minimum try and put the ball in the net him/her-self, instead of using his/her fingers on an ipad. - if the coach shows enthusiasm and gets a majority of the kids to focus he/she has already exceeded my expectations.

In a PDS that cost rises to cover the cost of professional paid for coaches. I expect then the quality and professionalism should be on another level.

Expecting house league volunteers to bring a structure that professional coaches bring is asking too much. If my child is in PDS, then I sure as heck want to know they can compete and that my money is going to fund better coaching etc etc...

If i chose to put my child into an academy I'm paying someone to teach my kid something they cannot get elsewhere. He/she is pursuing their interest and passion in being better at the sport.

A private academy shouldn't be ostracized for offering that service. Likewise we don't ostracize private music academies or teachers from having their students hold recitals.

I do believe those private academies should be held to a standard. Can what they teach really make a difference on the pitch? Wouldn't it be interesting if a PDS team competed and beat the likes (and i'm picking on them because of the name) a FC Bescola team? Or vice-versa and prove that $3000 a year does indeed put a better trained athlete on the pitch.

And what's to say the for profit organizations don't pay dues to BC Soccer to continue to be a member whereby ultimately $$ is being put towards the betterment of the sport.

Back to the point of this thread, I do believe competition is key.


.

 

[easoccer]

100% agree that volunteers should be respected and applauded. I coached for many years. As a person starting out there was no information. Everything I learned was from youtube and watching other people coach their teams. My point was not that "your child" should be fit into a mold, but that more support should be given to these coaches in order to provide a higher level of coaching. I don't believe it is too much to ask. Just as one child may be there for the exercise, and another for high level training, that doesn't mean the kids in between should have to look to private academies to get something the club could be providing at a reasonable cost.

Anyway, I would send my kid to a private academy if the price was a bit more reasonable. Not everyone can afford $3000 per year.

 

[TKBC]

I wouldn't refer to staff coaches as "professional." Very few coaches in a club are professional - Technical Director, assistant Tech Director (if the club has one) and that's about it. Some clubs are large enough to have a couple full-time paid staff, I think. Most, like mine, have 1 full-time plus a number of coaches on honorarium.

But staff coaches certainly should have minimum experience and education thus yes can be expected to run a structured session.

 

[Alex Polevoy]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I was watching practice at Coastal. on one section they have u9 pds, and next to them they have u9 house (which is everything not pds).

Watching the pds team you can clearly see they have staff coaches, team coaches, and assistants. The practice is structured from start to finish. All players are in full gear and look the part. Proper warm up, proper skills training, progression, and focus. Obviously the players are selected and have demonstrated some form of ability at this young age. They are fully involved and having fun. They have 2 practices per week.

Now the house players are under the direction of a volunteer coach. This coach has enthusiasm and is very friendly. On her team, you can also see that there are some very good, enthusiastic players. The focus is more on fun. The warm up is very basic, there are delays between drills, and there is little progression. 1 practice per week.

Now, my point isn't to talk down the house coach. I have every bit of respect for her and what she is doing. My point is that at this young stage there should be more emphasis on ALL teams to start their soccer career with the same focus that the PDS gets. All house coaches should be encouraged to follow a similar program, within reason. There are players in this group that can become just as good, if not better, than those is pds at 8 years. There should be club staff on the field at all times monitoring player development. Yes fun should be a MAJOR part of the process, but development of players should be the clubs number one priority.

And, I as a parent would have no problem paying a bit extra to make sure that this happens. What I cant do is pay upwards to $1700/year to a FP. Out out my budget I'm afraid.

You are absolutely correct in your post, the point of clubs and BC Soccer (football) should be to develop players, develop game and improve overall quality of the programs, measured in results, like how many players BC develops , how many go to Collage scholarship, how many get to professional league. It is not to say that all should do so, but if does reflect on the quality of programs overall from house team to the top of the club Metro- HPL league. And having professional people - coaches involved through the program is key, ( lexamole Iceland) , there is no way at U8 or u11 or u14 , you can be certain that players you have in your select group are guaranteed to be the best you have in the club, but the kids bellow, not getting professional training, ether drop out of sport or never get their potential developed. Unfortunately main problem with non profit , friends of the clubs president system, there will never be aciuntablbility for performance of the club, player development, assement of results. Professional run academies as business in completion will have that, so the future of BC soccer should be towards Accademy programs run, and giving academies supper from cities and province to have better rate on the fields and costs to demand affordable pricing, same thing as done now to clubs, but give money and incentive to professionals.

 

[4_the_kids]

You are absolutely correct in your post, the point of clubs and BC Soccer (football) should be to develop players, develop game and improve overall quality of the programs, measured in results, like how many players BC develops , how many go to Collage scholarship, how many get to professional league. It is not to say that all should do so, but if does reflect on the quality of programs overall from house team to the top of the club Metro- HPL league. And having professional people - coaches involved through the program is key, ( lexamole Iceland) , there is no way at U8 or u11 or u14 , you can be certain that players you have in your select group are guaranteed to be the best you have in the club, but the kids bellow, not getting professional training, ether drop out of sport or never get their potential developed. Unfortunately main problem with non profit , friends of the clubs president system, there will never be aciuntablbility for performance of the club, player development, assement of results. Professional run academies as business in completion will have that, so the future of BC soccer should be towards Accademy programs run, and giving academies supper from cities and province to have better rate on the fields and costs to demand affordable pricing, same thing as done now to clubs, but give money and incentive to professionals.

I would suggest that private academies have the same politics as clubs do. I have struggled for years on where academies fit in the picture. This is very difficult because the growth of academies comes at the expense of the not for profit clubs and my fear is it will one day make them non existence as the not for profits struggle to compete , especially smaller size clubs.
Currently it is of my opinion that there is not enough people involved in soccer to support the academy system at the youth levels, there is certainly an opportunity at the U 19-U23 or even mens level. Local clubs need to attract the highest level of coaching possible and if they are competing with private industry this may become a challenge , we need the academy level of programming at the grassroots clubs especially U6 to U12. I have heard of parents who say instead of a bs U6 -U7 club program they rather put there kids in an academy and then at U9 or U10 join a community club. At first I thought that makes sense , maybe that is where academies can fit in the mold. Then i thought clubs needs to be offering that level of programming.
Now i will contradict myself a bit, the one advantage of the academies is they could potentially force the non profits to improve there offerings thus increasing the level of programming for everyone , this would be a huge win for BC Soccer.
In the end I maintain that I don't think the current state of soccer is large enough or mature enough to fully adapt private academies into the system. I believe if we do all development ( rep ) level play will move to these academies and it then becomes about who can afford it ( similar to what is happening in minor hockey ) and not about developing the next generation of national team players.

 

[Fil66]

In the end I maintain that I don't think the current state of soccer is large enough or mature enough to fully adapt private academies into the system. I believe if we do all development ( rep ) level play will move to these academies and it then becomes about who can afford it ( similar to what is happening in minor hockey ) and not about developing the next generation of national team players.

Totally agree with this.

 

[TulioMaravilha]

So many thoughts...

Quick answer is "Yes they should be integrated" (actually there's an argument that they are supposed to be if you are to go by FIFA's regulations). Will they ever? I doubt it, it shakes too much the established power structure here. The argument that Academies are there for money (and therefore should be shunned for the BCSA sanctioned path) is laughable. As far as I know, any pro team in the world is there to win tittles and $$ and their academies are one of the ways to accomplish that. I don't think Spaniards, Germans, Brazilians, etc. are complaining about the money side getting into the picture. I have in the past questioned the structure here, preached that academies be included in the system, etc., while at the same time getting my "badges" and coaching club soccer. Eventually just got tired and focused on watching my kids play.

Anyhow, I digress... All I can say about the relative merits of FPs and NFPs is talk from experience. Both my boys played in NFP club teams growing up and were good (as well as obsessed) enough to always play at the highest level available here, be it Select than Metro and BCSPL. But I also had them in academies (since, I dunno, 7?) and so they went thru WC's, Roman Tulis, TSS as well as Metro Ford's and SU's. To the point that I was never shy to say that if I had to choose between them going to their FP Academy or playing club soccer (at the beginning some BCSPL clubs were trying to make players choose their path with exclusivity) Youth soccer would be a goner. Why? Simple, I'm Brazilian and there's really no other sport, right? Did it pay-off financially or development-wise? Frankly, I never cared, but if you buy into the 10,000 hours argument, they were definitely exposed to lots more football than they would otherwise be and their "soccer resume" certainly reflects that.

My advice for parents who consider academies has always been: go for it but be realistic in your expectations. Don't expect your kid to become the next Messi, he most probably won't. Don't expect for the investment in BSCPL and Academies to pay off in savings on their college education. Just put the money aside, you'll probably be better off. BTW, no sour grapes here, both my kids plaid Varsity in college and one is in a NCAA D1 full-ride. But I know it's just luck that the investment paid off for him. If he had chosen to play for, say UBC, all that money would be down the drain...Anyways, do it because your kid love the sport and can't have enough of it. Do it because the kid wants in the late Roman Tulis' moto "Be The Best That He Can Be" whatever that level is.

 

[Total -Base]

There was a guy saying BCSA has to take path and run the Province that feller must be on planet nine. BC collects money fro each kid do you think they will start club wars. Not going to happen, as it's now things are all over the place but at least Coastal League is getting better. BCSA needs to stay out of it totally or it will end up like CSA getting rid of coaches each year and covering up cost faults. When you get a rooster making love to turkey god knows what mungo will come out. Latest I hear that HPL will have tear two. What the hack you head select program in place with way lower cost. Adding tear two will only give jobs to few more CSA useless guys. God help this country, poor kids will never make money playing soccer here. Mom and dad will go broke paying useless coaches. In last 10 years no kid made it to British top League or any other top League. Sad they all need to give it up. Better yet start Bush league soccer as it stand now that't where we are going.