Commitment Level

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 4_the_kids, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. Bee

    Bee New Member

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    Great points to consider everyone, thanks. I really enjoy this forum.

    I feel it's not as simple as 4 hours of a player's time. Most often, my players' obligations to school are late developments, or they clash with the practice time itself.

    I have a lot of leniency as I'm a procrastinator. I remember the stress of balancing high grades with piss-poor time management skills.

    I'll close my take with this piece of a seminar from the Germany soccer body, meant for U16 - U19 teams:

    Sportliche und schulisch-berufliche Belastungen koordinieren:
    - Gesamtbelastung beachten und ggf. einzelnen Spielern trainingsfreie Tage einräumen.
    - In stressigen Phasen (z. B. Abitur, Abschluss-pruefungen) die Belastungen reduzieren.
    - Den Fokus auch auf den Spass legen.
    - Das Fussballspiel auch als Entspannungsventil bzw. Stressabbau ansehen.

    ... which roughly translates to:

    Coordinate the stress of sporting and school:
    - Note overall burden & possibly allow individual players days off.
    - In stressful periods (eg. final exams), reduce the burden [of training].
    - Place the focus [of training] on fun.
    - See the game of football as "relief valve" ie. stress reduction.

    Most of my coaching comes from the DFB. If anyone could use ideas, I recommend their site (organized by age groups) >>>

    Trainer/in
     
  2. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Bee, I don't think anyone disagrees there are exceptions and that soccer should be fun first.
     
  3. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    Bee, excellent resource, Thanks
     
  4. Semi Retired Soccer Coach

    Semi Retired Soccer Coach New Member

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    As a long time youth coach at the Metro/Div1/Gold level I would like to offer my opinion on commitment and expectations.

    Firstly, at all levels of the game we should be encouraging participation and a love of the game with the long term view that the more youth players we have graduating the system at U18, the more likely we are to have a better overall standard of play throughout the development years.

    At anything below the Whitecaps Youth and BCPL teams (and some of the academies) a coach should have an "individualized" attendance and commitment expectation for his or her players. Yes, different rules for different players based on the ability of each individual (and family) to balance their life and their soccer. Why this approach? Everything below Whitecaps Youth and BCPL is largely recreational soccer (with a handful of specific player exceptions) As a coach I would suggest that we can't afford to draw lines in the turf and tell players "if you don't attend XX sessions XX times" you can't play. I can already hear the howls of complaint from the readers yet ask yourself, how many players from your club at the Metro/Div1/Gold level have graduated youth soccer and gone on to play the game on either a scholarship at University or at the semi-pro level? Community college doesn't count, go watch some matches and then go watch some VMSL matches and you'll understand why.

    Again, if you're coaching at these levels you are coaching mostly recreational level players, at U18 they are finished and only a handful will be playing as adults.

    My basic rules for player commitment were as follows (cut and pasted from my email to parents)

    We train three times per week, you are expected to be there for all three sessions. Your play time on weekends is largely based on your attendance and commitment at training. If you are going to miss training for any reason you must let me know in advance. Every player and parent has my email address, my cell phone number, you can email, text, or call. There are no excuses for lack of communication.
    I understand that each player has commitments outside of soccer that are important and each player can be excused from training for a variety of reasons and I will work with the player and family to come up with a suitable compromise.
    Players taking part in multiple sports or extracurricular activities (school or otherwise) are expected to attend all training sessions unless there are direct conflicts between the two (for example, your other sports team trains at the same time as we do) If there is a direct conflict between sports we expect you to commit to attending at least half our sessions. If you choose to attend less than half our sessions your play time on weekends will reflect that choice.
    Players taking part in extracurricular school activities or have part time jobs should speak with the coaches directly as their circumstances change throughout the season.
    At any time there are issues with attending training for any reason at all, speak with me, we'll work it out.

    Over the years I've had very few issues. In most years my teams have had better than 90% attendance at sessions all season long no matter how miserable the weather or how successful the team has been in the league standings. I've found that most of the time, most of the players want to be at training (provided you make it challenging, rewarding, and fun) Many of my graduating players have continued to play the game as adults throughout the lower mainland and at community colleges, have become referees or volunteer coaches. Quite a number of those players would have had to quit the game had I had a one size fits all attendance policy. Only very rarely have I had issues with players or parents thinking that they have been treated unfairly under this policy, and in every case it always came from a player/family that didn't follow my basic "communication" rule (and had an overblown belief in their own abilities on the pitch and thought that they were so essential to the team that the rules wouldn't apply to them)
     
  5. Legend

    Legend Member

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    Going through the forum and reading all the points was excellent and I agree with almost all the coaching points they are made. However the only thing I have a problem / issue is calling Division 1 rep! In mu opinion Metro and HPL are the two REP leagues leaving Div 1 and below recreational. I back this statement by looking at exactly what you guys are saying. We both know the skill level of these athlete is low, however with my experience I would suggest its VERY low. Which in result falls back on their commitment levels and engagement with other sports.
    If they were a rep player, they would have more commitment, more skill and always wanting to be at practice and wanting to learn with a ball at their foot. Just my two scents, and my experience comes from my playing days in various continents from 17 to 23 so I've seen what the youth are like in many different countries. Canada is still light years behind. Division 1 for youth is just a bunch of athletes kicking a ball around, nothing more. Unfortunately you won't know that until you spend months on end in specific countries.
     
  6. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Div 1 is rep. That you are so elitist and dismissive is incredibly offensive to those players you don't know. I agree in Div 1 there are some rec-mentality teams and players - maybe half of a division? So I can see why you think it's rep in name only (see below my suggestion on how to fix this). I can assure you MSL and BCSPL have plenty of rec mentality players too. Just because a player happens to be good enough technically and physically to play a level doesn't make them serious mentally (ie, they have a rec mentality)

    Do not be dismissive of Div 1 players - it's people like you why we are so far behind as a country. You ignore the potential in the lower tiers. For example, did you know a Div 1 player signed for Whitecaps u18 this season?

    My solution: I believe we should have BCSPL 1-2-3. "3" would be the current gold/div 1 set-up. BCSPL simply needs to create it's own division 2 and 3, set standards for those divisions (2 less than 1, 3 less than 2), make them more regional (as they are now) and we'll begin to take a more unified step forward. The issues you speak of about rec mentality would be largely resolved in that set-up because those that have no interest in the standards of BCSPL 2-3 would simply not need to join/apply to join, and coaches would have more grounds to cut players who aren't there for the right reasons. Clubs would be able to cut coaches who aren't cutting it.

    I've coached gold teams for years. Plenty have gone on to University, MSL, BSCPL. Never had attendance issues or lack of effort issues. If teams have those issues, they should strongly consider going down to Div 2 or 3. If players quit as a result of "only being in div 2 or 3" that says nothing about the club, but speaks volumes about the player.
     
  7. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    Its not just him who ignores the lower tiers. The clubs do as well. If you are not div 2 or higher you are basically the red headed step child. Even parents and players themselves feel that these levels are low quality. They are not always.

    From my experience, not much seperates div 3 from 1.

    The difference may be a top level striker, or an elite goalie. A div 1 team may have 3 or 4 very good players compared to 1 or 2 on div 3.

    Div 2 and up have access to better practice times and locations, more access to technical staff, etc.
     
  8. Legend

    Legend Member

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    I think you missed a few points I was making. Yes, I agree that many players in Div 1, 2 and 3 have a rep mentality. Also, many players in Div 1, 2, and 3 are quite similar but just happened to be divided into various leagues due to the amount of volume. These talents are very subjective. However, Div 1, 2, and 3 have a majority of REC minded players from my experience over REP minded. You're also correct, MSL and HPL have REC mentality players but thats the minority.

    My philosophy to the game stems from world standards. I never look at what the lower mainland is doing for the answer, nor BC Soccer or Canada. I use youth or pro soccer standards from the entire planet and compare it to what we are doing in this Vancouver Bubble. Once I compare and contrast this to youth in Portugal, Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, etc etc etc then Div 1 and below without a doubt is recreational mentality as a whole. That does not mean that there are players in these divisions that love the game, show up to every practice, and want to get better. It's a umbrella statement.

    To add to this, the infrastructure of the teams/clubs does not help. The club allows only two sessions per week, each an hour long, on a quarter sized pitch with 10 balls and a volunteer parent coach. The coach has 16 players and 5 are taking it seriously, the rest play multiple sports, have low skills, and some don't show up to practice due to all sorts of reasons and your calling it REP soccer? In my opinion, your the problem with Canadian soccer standards. You should be furious that these are the standards and that division 1 is framed like this.

    Rep Soccer

    - A full size team where players in the in-season are only playing Soccer
    - Practice would be 3-4 times per week plus a game and recovery days
    - A parent is not allowed to coach the team
    - A professional coach handles the team
    - Proper equipment is issued
    - professional youth mentality

    Above is HPL at moment, not even MSL. As usual with forums we said the same thing but in a different way because much of what people here mentioned is very accurate.
     
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  9. Legend

    Legend Member

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    Also, I don't ignore the lower tiers at all. In fact, programs that I run do the exact opposite and all my div 2, div 1 players move to Metro or receive HPL trials because of m
     
  10. Legend

    Legend Member

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    sorry... because of what I have implemented into their training and their mental approach to the game.
     
  11. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I agree. Sometimes the comittment of certain players and coaches makes things difficult. But this is true to everything in life and we deal with what we have.

    Good for you that you are having succes in promoting players. You should be proud of that for sure.
     
  12. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    You don't notice much difference in level between div 3 and 1? That's quite shocking to me. Having been a div 1 coach (who has finished first, middle, last in Div 1) I can say that when we've been drawn with div 2 winning teams it's been a cake-walk. Having played middle or bottom Div 2 teams my teams have (unfortunately!) run up the score over 10 goals....I can't imagine what playing a div 3 team would be like. And the difference between the teams was not 1 "top level striker".

    I've of course seen some div 2 teams be just as good as div 1, surely. But that's rare.
     
  13. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Those points were missed because you didn't say them. You generalized the entire level as rec.

    The key to being considered "competitive" for me is the MENTALITY (which I bolded in your post above).

    You and I agree with what constitutes a competitive/rep mentality, I think.

    You and I somewhat disagree with the majority/minority of Div 1 having a rec mentality. BUT, if you say your standard is based on world-wide sport I will suggest to you then that pretty much 99% of players in BC have a rec mentality regardless of level of play they are at in BC. If you are comparing our kids to professional academies across the world we're not even in the same galaxy.

    My position is this re: BC-based soccer players and comparing them to other BC-based soccer players: rep mentality can be found at all levels. rec mentality can be found at all levels. I would suggest you can find this same in the coaches and league boards.

    The only truly rep mentality we have in this province is the Whitecaps training (the residency). And some kids can be found at all levels who truly have that mentality at all 3 of the top tiers (and quite possibly some at lower) who just happen to not have the physical/technical attributes to make the Whitecaps.
     
  14. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Focusing on the mental approach is so so difficult yet so so important! Well done to you. I was guest coach last night to some 10 year olds and I asked them how their game went. They lost by a fairly heavy score, it seems. I asked why. They said "we didn't play to the best of our ability." But, at the same time they didn't see a correlation between failing to train to the best of their ability and then having an inability to perform to the best of their ability in the game. They didn't seem to think one was connected to the other. They (probably 10 of the 12 players) clearly have a rec mentality even though they are select.

    I tried to explain to them that the game is a lot more fun if you are preparing yourself to the best of your ability and giving yourself a chance to be competitive, and thus "proud" of themselves (some said they weren't proud of themselves).

    Pretty much the entire night was spent on training habits, more than it was on technical ability - very frustrating for the players because most of them didn't understand why. Which lead to the "serious" players being frustrated with their teammates. Their coach wasn't able to attend - he got a lengthy email ;)
     
  15. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    Winning or scoring multiple goals is not the same as collectivly saying a team is better. When you have 18 teams in div 1, 17 in div 2 and then div 3 there will be some disparity.

    I stand by my assertion that many of these div 1 teams win by the efforts of the minority of players on their team. Ie, one player will have 3 goals, but nothing spectacular from the rest.

    This summer, my div 3 team played the provincial finalist from kilarney. We lost 3-0 and in that game 2 of their goals were penalties. We had a penalty as well that we were not able to convert.

    We played 2 bottom div 1 teams from last year in the west coast cup, winning 2 2-0, 1-1sow and losing 1 2-1.

    We are in div 2 now. Starting 1-0 win.

    My team was 5-5-4 in div 3 last year. 2 new players only. Mid and goal.
     
  16. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    My point wasnt to say that div 3 is as good as div 1.

    Im saying that these divisions are overlooked, the quality of play is not that bad, and if the clubs spent time and effort on the div 3 teams, in some cases the better practice times, locations and technical staff could make a big difference for some of those players.
     
  17. Legend

    Legend Member

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    I love these forums, because the statement "we deal with what we have" LEADS into one of the other topics on this forum asking what the best academy is. That forum boomed with conversation about private academies vs NFP and the advantages / disadvantages.
    For me the private academies can implement all the little environmental changes that make it REP Soccer. For example: Professional Coach, proper training times, on proper field sizes with proper equipment. You add strong soccer curriculum and plug in a div 1 or div 2 player with a good mentality and is coachable then we have a good solution to BC Soccer. That Division 1 or 2 player within 12 months is now metro. I have many examples of that. I have even some going to HPL trials.
     
  18. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    Im not saying we live with what we have as in we except them and not try to improve them. Im saying I get my roster and I develop those players. There is no selection at the div 3/4 level.

    I have had girls and boys jump from my div 3 teams to div 1 and metro. Its not uncommon. But I have also seen elite players not on those same div 1/metro/hpl teams because of work ethic. Someone along the way told them they were elite and now they wont work for it, they just expect it. Their parents expect it.

    Im a parent of 5 kids and so far 4 have played with another starting next year. As the parent and fan Im just happy to see them play. As a coach of one, Im harder. I send them to academies when I could. I have an offer for my daughter to play whitecaps girls at 7 years old. I cant justify that. Id rather her have fun with friends and do other things. Some may pay for the academy, but Im in no hurry for her to be a pro or even think at this stage she ever will be.

    Am I wrong?

    Sorry Im rambling.
     
  19. Legend

    Legend Member

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    Your right, in soccer the FUN must be first. To keep it simple for typing. I'd ask her what she wants, those type of opportunities only come once sometimes. To be part of the whitecaps development TEAM is a fun and engaging experience.
     
  20. Legend

    Legend Member

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    Yes a good coach will alter, and modify the environment to make it the best possible situation. However even that can be limited. Making it a Mickey Mouse environment compared to what the boys deserve. There is where the clubs come short even though I believe they do mean well. They have limited resources.
     

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