Best Young Players in BC / Canada

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LFC, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    The most talented players from BC were on display at the Whitecaps College Showcase tournament in Surrey last weekend. All the BCSPL teams from U15 to U18 were there as well the UBC mens team and teams from USA.
    The Whitecaps girls team won all 3 games and the U17/18 residency team looks to have many high calibre players.
     
  2. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    All BCSPL teams? victoriasoccerblogspot talks about how a few VI Wave teams didn't go.
     
  3. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    correct no U15 or 16 boys or U17/18 girls from Vancouver Island Wave.

    Results can be found be here:
    Vancouver Whitecaps FC LP
     
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  4. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    Not only that, but may I point out there are some Metro teams equally as good as some of the HPL teams, which are denied access to this tournament. Yes, folks, the White Caps will not allow a Metro level team to enter their tournament. Why should a Metro team that has shown through game results that they can compete at this level, be denied ? How does this support soccer in this province?
     
  5. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    No reason MSL and Div 1 can't get together and create their own, on a different weekend.

    I can understand not allowing MSL teams to enter - they get a number of out-of-province entries and you can't have a massive tournament so they have to be selective in who enters.

    From a cynical perspective, BCSPL and Whitecaps are aware that there are MSL teams as good as some BCSPL teams. So why would they want that advertised by allowing these teams into the tournaments. That said, if memory serves the MSL teams that challenged A Cup this year didn't do well against the 4th-placed BCSPL teams. So if the "top" MSL teams are better than BCSPL teams - it's likely the 6th-8th place BCSPL teams. But how much better than those teams are they?

    Additionally, BCSA wants all top players in this league - by only allowing BCSPL teams in the tournament (and essentially the PTP program), it is a way to "encourage" players to join BCSPL.
     
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  6. Legend

    Legend Member

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    Best options these days are Sweden, Norway, Finland, Portugal, eastern Europe, China, Japan, South Korea, Central America.
    Continental Europe basically is for players with a European passport.

    As a Canadian its hard to go to places with a lower living standard. Off the field concerns are a massive factor. Most people on this forum won't even comprehend or understand what I am talking about.
     
  7. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    Try me.
     
  8. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    LOL, c'mon.
     
  9. Legend

    Legend Member

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    Explain to me than what I just said... in detail please.
     
  10. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I agree with you. Brazil for instance. The favelas. For sure our understanding would be very much limited to what we think we know.
     
  11. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    That you assume other people understand lower living standards.
     
  12. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    100% - that's not what my remark was referring to. Please see my previous post. This guy is assuming "most people wouldn't understand on this board." This guy has no clue what other people have experienced.

    But to support what he's saying - I agree. Canadian and American kids (British, Aussies etc too) will never have "that x factor" that kids from other countries have. Our fridges are full of food, we have beautiful turf pitches, we have video games, and lunch programs at school, we can walk without fear in our communities, and if we fail at sport we have education and other employment to fall back on, and even if we don't have that we have income assistance programs and other social assistance programs. We have a safety net that other countries don't.

    We also have a youth soccer development system that rewards those who "have" and not necessarily those who have the necessary sporting traits that should determine what level they play.
     
  13. scissor

    scissor Member

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    First off I am tired of the old MSL vs BCSPL comment... "MSL teams have challenged in the past and couldn't beat the 4th placed team".
    Most MSL teams who are in a position to make a serious challenge against the BCSPL teams would never attempt it due to the logistics of the challenge. The MSL season is Sept. to April. BCSPL is March to June. For a MSL team to challenge they must drop out of the coastal cup and wait twiddling their thumbs until June. Almost a full 4 months after the regular season. During that time a MSL team must find a way to practice and play games to stay game ready for 4 months. Most BCSPL teams who are aware of good MSL teams stay far away from playing them unless they can be fairly certain they are punching bags rather than competition.
    As a coach of a MSL team who has on many occasions played to the provincials this time period between the end of April to the beginning of July is painful. Trying to keep a team focussed and prepared in the off season is very difficult.
    The off season task is multiplied making a BCSPL challenge when a MSL team must give up the coastal cup tournament as well. On top of all that the BCSPL has single knock out tournament to determine a champion. (This is probably the most ridiculous aspect of BCSPL. There should be a round robin to determine placing of the top 4 teams similar to the MSL provincials)
     
  14. scissor

    scissor Member

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    BCSPL is exclusive. Is set up to be exclusive like a downtown club so only the hippest, well connected, wealthiest, eager parents with delusions of grandeur can be seen. The VIP room is the whitecaps residency or whatever the female counterpart name is. There are of course a fair percentage of those who represent what BCSPL was meant to stand for but its watered down BC soccer the same way the Whitecaps residency program waters down BCSPL. All this division and effort put into BC soccer so the whitecaps academy can find 1 or 2 if lucky per age group of kids who may play on a national level one day. I can understand the reasoning for the efforts but the methods are a bit over the top.
    Pathways are necessary to keep competition fair, not to exclusive. If BCSPL was all about development and growth then why does it implement limits on subs? So the parent who invested 3-4 grand can watch his kid sit on the bench game day? Why is there only 6 lower mainland teams? Does BC not want to develop as many top level players as possible or does that make it too difficult for provincial coaches to find top players?
    There will be those who disagree. I challenge them to show statistics of those who play in professional soccer in Europe at the Premiere league. How many of those players were identified at the age of 13 to play soccer at 3-5 thousand dollar price per year. How many went to school at a soccer academy where they live and breathe soccer 24/7 while taking the bus and skytrain every morning at 5:00am to achieve it? The academy is so exclusive they basically have no one to play locally! (Yes Messi is an example and many others but my bets are the numbers are not in the majority.)
    I bet majority of the ones playing at that level played at youth for the fun of game and competition. (I am sure economics plays a part as well with a nod to the comment above)
    Turning the BC soccer model into the Canadian Hockey style model is not the answer to develop better players. Its the mentality of game that needs to change. Hockey is exclusive but according to Tim Hortons its Canada's game! Soccer is still viewed as that other sport.
    Its 2016 and the last time I checked the women were on top in world standings prior to BCSPL. The Men still suck and I highly doubt the BCSPL/residency model will do much to change it.
     
  15. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    MSL has a knockout tournament as well though - coastal cup.
     
  16. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Whitecaps residency only takes a handful of BCSPL kids. It is not leading to BCSPL being watered down. If anything is watering down BCSPL it is MSL, and vice versa the MSL is watered down by BCSPL.

    BCSPL limiting the number of teams in the league is absolutely the correct way to go. Should Lower Mainland have 8 teams? No. Just look at the bottom 2-3 teams in each division. They aren't really appearing competitive within BCSPL, let alone if the league was expanded to 10 teams. 6 LM clubs is perfect. The issue is the pathway itself, not the number of teams. The other issue is the cost to enter the league. On top of that, because of geography you are always always always going to have players that for a variety of reasons that are easily good enough to play BCSPL never enter the league. There is really nothing the league or BCSA can do about that.

    Said before and will say again - create a BCSPL 1-2-3 structure, increasing the number of divisions/teams from each tier down and you will improve greatly the landscape of development and player promotion to the correct league. Ie, BCSPL 1 = 8 clubs, BCSPL 2 (MSL) = 12 clubs, BCSPL 3 (Gold/Div 1) = two divisions of 12 clubs.

    Silver/Div 2 then becomes effectively the top tier of rec soccer.
     
  17. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    The women are on top for now - without being progressive in our planning they will very very quickly fall away. Just look at Japan u20 destroying USA u20 5-0.

    The men suck, and BCSPL won't likely change that. What will change that are the professional academies iN Vancouver, Edmonton, Toronto, and Montreal (Ottawa doesn't have an academy do they?). What will change that is the creation of a Canadian premier League (professional men) that is fed by leagues such as BCSPL nationwide or leagues such as BCSPL feeding the reserve/academy system in such a league as CPL.
     
  18. Legend

    Legend Member

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    I know by saying most is a far statement because most haven't played over seas in countries that are not in the same economical state as Canada. So when kids do train long term in Germany, France, U.K., Italy, Sweden, USA, they should be able to handle it for the most part (this is off the field variables: Language, Food, WIFI, quality of life, safety, activity options outside of soccer) This is known to some people as the "Rice Krispy Factor" and all major clubs now have guidance trainers to deal with these foreign players. I even heard the Whitecaps have someone taking care of the South Americans.

    As you know because I've seen your posts which are in-depth that players who travel to second / third world countries because of the opportunity that these factors increase quite a bit. I personally went through this for years. Most Canadians don't have my soccer background / resume so what I said is fact and was not trying to be arrogant, just stating what is true. It did came across like a negative comment thou, sorry about that... most of my comments are late at night and rushed
     
  19. Legend

    Legend Member

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    My comment was based off the Rice Krispy Factor which when I have mentioned to almost all people their 1st comment is: "Oh man, I didnt even think about that!" No one thinks about the off the field variables when teens go for long term training or long term trials.
     
  20. scissor

    scissor Member

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    BCSPL is watered down when the top kids are moved to a closed academy. Those are the kids that aspire the others in the league to achieve better play. (quoted by several prominent BCSPL coaches)

    My second post clarifies the problem with BCSPL. Its too exclusive. Everyone cites the money but its more than that. Any other league as a coach I can play to improve my team throughout a season without having to worry about the almighty win every week. BCSPL with the limited subs and playoff structure promotes winning above all else. It permeates though the league with bench warmer players, over demanding coaches who are under pressure to succeed on a scoreboard rather than perform development. They are paid as well so the underlining pressure of success or bust is already present.
    The leagues recent attempts to 'fix it' don't even cover the issues. There idea is to scratch out drop kicks from goalies! touch lines at ages over 13! Eliminate scoreboards! Like waking from a bad liberal lefty nightmare where feminists are demanding safe spaces on the soccer field.
    Your idea of BCSPL 123 sounds good on paper but I can tell you from experience coaching in Div. 1 that relying on volunteer district people to properly tier a league is a joke.
    My point is... there was nothing wrong with the old structure. Its used throughout the rest of Canada. Metro is the highest and that is that. The only reason BCSPL exists is one so people can feel secure with paid coaches which is another argument altogether. The second being the main reason is so the higher ups can identify one - two players out of an age group easier then they were able to in the past.
    All this is about 1 - 2 players. The rest... feast or famine good luck playing at whatever University/College that might take you.
     

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