Disagree. Think about kids that play in districts that don't have a metro team. Also, think about kids that live a far distance drive from the nearest metro team even if it is in your district. Also, think about right to choose. Kids can choose to play on any team they want regardless of their skill level - just as a kid "not good enough" can play in BCSPL or Metro, a kid that is "very good" can choose to play rec.
Player Transfers
- Thread starter WTF
- Start date
Disagree. Think about kids that play in districts that don't have a metro team. Also, think about kids that live a far distance drive from the nearest metro team even if it is in your district. Also, think about right to choose. Kids can choose to play on any team they want regardless of their skill level - just as a kid "not good enough" can play in BCSPL or Metro, a kid that is "very good" can choose to play rec.
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- #22
Its just unfair on clubs with low membership who have to scrape together Silver/Bronze players to form a Gold team. When teams from mainly Surrey Dist add BCSPL players to the roster around Nov/Dec it makes the games even more unfair. During the season Drop down from BCSPL should be to Metro only !
Exactly.
I say it is fair. Kids can register on any team they want, if said team accepts them.
Why are they putting a group of bronze/silver players into gold? IMO the board and the TD should be giving their head a shake.
You also can't just say kids who quit or are cut from BCSPL "must join metro." That's not fair. Cuz then some kid on the metro team has to get cut, or they simply add a player then everyone's playing time is affected. Or maybe the kid who was on BCSPL simply doesn't want to play on the metro team for very good reasons. Or maybe the BCSPL team trained in a fairly convenient location or whatever other reason they might have, and the metro team doesn't. I know in the Fraser Valley the BCSPL teams train in Langley, but the metro teams train all over the place - why should a kid who is from Langley be forced to then go and drive to Chilliwack when they may be perfectly happy playing Gold or even silver in Langley?
In the end, kids don't care if they are losing to better players - it's up to the coaches and parents to create an environment of realistic expectations, and FUN. The kids forget the scores, regardless of age, very very quickly.
When I was coaching a team recently these kids had a great perspective - when they lost to a better team they held their hands up and said to each other "we either get better, or accept that these guys will always beat us every time." They got better.
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- #26
Can,t speak for other Districts but in Surrey and surrounding areas with a BCSPL franchise , the TD / clubs don,t really bother about the teams below Metro .
Kids in Surrey definitely do care about losing and if a team is constantly losing , players quit playing while the better players are poached by other teams - happens all the time & all year as soccer is played all year round in Surrey -Summer leage from April -Aug and winter from Sep -Mar .
Here,s some scores from a post by myself & easoccer
Score from boys U13 Div 1 - WTF !
CMFImpact 17 v SUSTigers 1
U17 Div 2 - WTF !
LUSLangley Utd. Smith 12 v SFC99ers 0
There's an 18-1 score in U15 div 4 as well.
Again I ask - why are clubs/TD's putting teams of rec/bronze players in the silver/gold divisions? Don't blame strong teams because clubs put weak teams in the wrong league.
A score of 18-1 in Div 4 - how many players did the losing team have? Should the team that scored 18 goals have been placed in Div 2? If so, why are they in Div 4?
Kids care about losing - sure, of course. But losing a single game or even 2-3 games by a big score does not cause kids to quit. If a team is losing every week by big scores that is not any teams fault except their own and their club. They are clearly in the wrong division. If one team is winning every week by 4+ goals, they were put in the wrong division. But sometimes that's impossible to predict. A team I know of finished 2nd last last year - they ran the table this year with almost the same squad in the same league.
rich
Active Member
- Aug 20, 2015
- 291
This. It falls on the club / TD / Coach. Coach ego is sometimes the reason. Or "we'll lose little Johnny if he has to play Div 2", so to keep the best players, a disservice is done to the others.
Issue could be resolved with more fluid tiering, but that is a topic for another day, and many pints...
4_the_kids
Active Member
- Oct 20, 2015
- 312
There is no perfect answer this, it need thought and round table discussion. agree it starts with the leadership , so club executives , then TD's then staff coaches, the volunteer coaches ,parents. players .This. It falls on the club / TD / Coach. Coach ego is sometimes the reason. Or "we'll lose little Johnny if he has to play Div 2", so to keep the best players, a disservice is done to the others.
Issue could be resolved with more fluid tiering, but that is a topic for another day, and many pints...
We also need to understand as has been brought up several times in this discussion that players play for different reasons and the reasons change has the get older.
I think most kids and parents U9-U12 support and want to play at higher levels of play, as the competition and commitment level increases player drop down, they have the talent but do not like the seriousness of playing up.
In an ideal world the clubs are all run well and similar , the best kids are identified and play at appropriate levels , coaches are screened, etc...
The fact that most kids play for recreational reasons makes this very difficult, we essential need two streams one for the competitive kids and one for recreational , they need to work together to move kids up and down as they change
I agree. A rec stream and a comp stream makes perfect sense. Div 1-MSL-BCSPL are clearly the more competitive streams. There are plenty of silver/div 2 teams that want to be competitive, so then the difficulty becomes when do they get forced to be in div 1, or how does promotion work etc etc. Not an easy answer. But it could be solved.
Then if Div 2-house is rec, how does that get managed different? My point is Div 1-MSL are essentially run the same, right now, as rec/div 4.
easoccer
Established Member
- Aug 27, 2015
- 862
If your team is at the top at the end of the year, with a 12-0, 11-1, 10-2 or similar type of record, this should be an automatic promotion. If the coach/club doesnt want to move up they should have to prove a loss of players. If the roster is mostly intact, then the team must move up.
I believe a similar approach should be taken to teams on the opposite end of the scale with a 1-11 type of record. They should have to prove sufficient changes were made or they should be demoted.
Ideally with proper tiering the average record of a group should be around .500.
I believe a similar approach should be taken to teams on the opposite end of the scale with a 1-11 type of record. They should have to prove sufficient changes were made or they should be demoted.
Ideally with proper tiering the average record of a group should be around .500.
I disagree and also agree. The issue with promotion based on results in youth is you will get teams stacking players to get results, you'll get teams playing to win and ignoring fairness, playing time, and player development. Then, what if the team that is bottom of the league above finished last but were only a few points from the teams above, maybe only had a -5 GD....should they get relegated? I don't think so at all.
easoccer
Established Member
- Aug 27, 2015
- 862
I'm talking about teams that have 1-2 wins or losses in a season. Maybe top 2 or bottom 2 in a 14-16 team group. They should absolutely be relegated. The top and bottom being that close would never happen in this scenario.
Where do you draw the line? I've seen teams with just 1-2 wins still only have a -5 GD.....very competitive, just rarely win.
Promotion-Relegation automatic in youth soccer is a HUGE mistake in Canada. One which has put Canada in the terrible position internationally we are in now. Canada is in the wilderness and old school thinking will keep us there.
Pro-Rel isn't the only reason we are in the wilderness. It's just one.
As with all of you I've been around this as a player and a coach for a long time - I've never heard a player say "I wish there was promotion and relegation." Never. Whether they were a top team, middle team, or bottom team. What I do hear them say is "I hope this week's game is fun" Whether they were a top team, middle team, or bottom team.
If a team loses big each week, at the end of the season the coach or the TD needs to look at the roster - if it's the same roster. Drop them down a level (or two!). If a team is destroying everyone every week they need to move up from 3 to 2, 2 to 1 etc. I agree. The issue is if a team is destroying everyone in Div 1/Gold is there room in MSL? Can the parents afford the increased cost of playing in MSL? What if that district or club already has an MSL team? Will MSL let them have two teams? Even though they smashed D1 are they competitive with MSL teams? The only way to judge would be by playing friendlies/tourneys against MSL teams. What if the existing MSL team is barely surviving? Do you swap one struggling team for another team that will struggle too because presumably the D1 players were placed there because they are not as strong as the kids placed on the MSL team?
People need to stop worrying about results and just teach kids to love the game. The three years I coached u10-12 was amazing - very difficult in some areas. But the lack of caring about results was wonderful.
Your statement suggests that club executives, volunteer coaches and parents have knowledge about soccer development. Those people are all wonderful volunteers trying to do the best they can for their child, and kids in general. The volunteers on the board are typically good organizers, generally good communicators. They are not typically "soccer people" no matter what they might believe. I applaud them. We need them. I enjoy talking to them about the sport. I do not rely on their opinion about development models - nor should TD's and staff coaches who all presumably have reasonable playing careers, and do have coaching training, certification, and experience.
easoccer
Established Member
- Aug 27, 2015
- 862
I'm sorry but I think your philosophy is a bit of a fairy tale. An 11-1 and a 1-11 team being 5 goals apart is not going to be very common.
Also there is zero benefit to any playerrors playing in a game where they lose 6-0 or worse on a regular basis and is definitely not an environment to teach fun of the game.
There needs to be relegation to some degree.
Personally I like D4's approach. Every few games reassess.
Also there is zero benefit to any playerrors playing in a game where they lose 6-0 or worse on a regular basis and is definitely not an environment to teach fun of the game.
There needs to be relegation to some degree.
Personally I like D4's approach. Every few games reassess.
As I said above - I've seen teams at the bottom of a league be quite competitive. It is the exception, not the rule. But it happens.
I say, if teams are losing 11-1, that is sad. If it's a one-off then OK, it happens. If teams are losing every week by 3-4-5 goals....they should go down a level, certainly. But don't blame the team that scores 11 if it's a one-off. If they are winning every week by 3-4-5 then definitely should be considered moving up, but again, all depends on what's happening in the league above, at their club, can the parents afford the increased cost etc etc etc
- Thread starter
- #38
Transfer deadline Jan 15 :
d) A player being refused a transfer by the player's team and/or club shall be allowed to apply, without fee, to BC Soccer for review. If the releasing team official refuses to sign the application form without just cause, BC Soccer shall have the authority to approve an application to transfer without the releasing team official's signature.
If the above option has to be taken by any player wanting to transfer , will the transfer still go thru after the deadline of Jan 15 ??
d) A player being refused a transfer by the player's team and/or club shall be allowed to apply, without fee, to BC Soccer for review. If the releasing team official refuses to sign the application form without just cause, BC Soccer shall have the authority to approve an application to transfer without the releasing team official's signature.
If the above option has to be taken by any player wanting to transfer , will the transfer still go thru after the deadline of Jan 15 ??
- Thread starter
- #39