Lost focus in micro development.

[TKBC]

All these years football in Canada was "for having fun and enjoying the game". Any results?


Same question: Almost everywhere in Canada kids having equal time ( maybe except BCSPL ) - any results?
Argentina, Brasil, Mexico, European countries - they don't have the "equal time" rule. I am talking about U10 and higher.
That "rule" is not fair rule at all. Let's say we have 1 kid in a team, who loves football more than everything. He practices hard, he wants to be best, tries to do everything to be better, he imagines himself playing at Real Madrid one day. And we have other kid, who doesn't care about football, he just wants to have fun with his friends. The first boy tries hard on practices. Second - fooling around. And you think the second boy deserves the same amount of playing time with the 1st boy?
How long will the first boy's passion last if he sees that "unfairness" every weekend? And I saw lots of that "1st" boys. In fact, most of them quit playing for clubs because of that.
It depends what Canada wants. If Canada needs to develop football level - should be as fewer restrictions as it possible. Every kid should show to his coach that he wants to be on the field during his practices.
If Canada wants to just keep kids busy, give them more opportunities to have a fun - then it is OK to have "equal time" rule
Just to avoid misunderstandings - I am not saying, that better players should play more. I am saying, that kids, that loves football more should get more playing time. If a kid tries hard, practices with heart ( even he plays "worse" than other natural talented boys)- he deserves to get more than another one, who comes to football just because he doesn't want to sit home. ANd it is a job of a coach to recognize those kids and help them to grow giving them more opportunities to show their performance.
Canada needs to educate coaches, not put artificial "boundaries".

That was my humble opinion

Hi there Jenny. I appreciate your response. It's a typical response. My question is - how much coaching have you done in Canada? Did you play as a youth and/or adult? I also ask if you read this thread in its entirety?

"Fun" - Canada Soccer has a rec mentality. The vast majority of kids play in a rec league of course. Soccer everywhere is meant to be fun first, regardless of level of play. Be it Real Madrid academy, or Aldergrove Youth Soccer. Fun is always the coaches priority. Happy players play better, develop faster, continue to play the game.

Equal playing time - I can assure you equal playing time is not on the table everywhere in Canada. Even in my club the rule is 30% (if kids meet the team requirements). Think about that for a moment. In a 60 minute game a kid might only play 18 minutes. Imagine driving 2-3 hours, to play 18 minutes of soccer, on a rainy, windy, cold November morning? That's the reality at my club. 30 minutes isn't suitable either IMO, but it is what it is.

I asked if you read this thread because everyone, myself included, said equal playing time is also contingent upon appropriate behaviour. A kid messing around has not applied appropriate behaviour and thus won't get equal playing time. They don't on my team. I suggest they don't on any team - except maybe a house/rec team. Please have a read of the thread again.

That said, kids quit soccer. Typically they quit around age 15-16 (as well as with other sports). But we all have many examples of kids that quit at age 7-12 because they were not playing an adequate amount of time (assuming they had a good attitude). How many of those kids would have kept playing if they had played half the game, then by 15-16 loved the sport and replaced those so-called stars that quit at that age? In the current climate, we lose both players. Kids need to learn.

Who said anything about playing more talented, lazy kids ahead of the hard working less talented kid? Sorry, I don't recall anyone suggesting that. For myself, I stepped in and coached a metro team for a practice. The "star" of the team of 15 year olds attitude was terrible. I told the coach "bench him, his attitude is terrible, his teammates don't respect him." The kid is very good, so got exactly what you described here - more playing time because he's good. He'll never achieve anything in this sport while the kids who were driven an focus will almost definitely also quit because they'll think "what's the point?" I agree with you. Play kids on merit, not just on talent.

 

[TKBC]

Like I said earlier. Based on behavior, attitude, commitment and work ethic.

Hopefully if you go out for development or rep that your mindset is correct.

But in the case of everything being equal, except a deviation in skill, but both made the same squad, then my feeling is that each player should be treated equal.

Indeed all things beinq equal then equal playing time. That isn't to say every kid plays half the game. The best players will play more. I coached kids that reached decent levels, university and up - did they only play half? Of course not. They also had exceptional attitudes so no one complained. But the other kids on the team basically fought it out for the 50% with each other (and earned it).

 

[easoccer]

Its also a different mindset here becuase there are now 4 clubs in this park. So if you dont give the top players the balance of the time then the parent groups pull those kids out and shop them around.

So rather than having structure and teaching/developing kids according to ltpd we have chaos.

Its not easy here.

 

[Krutov]

All these years football in Canada was "for having fun and enjoying the game". Any results?
Let's say we have 1 kid in a team, who loves football more than everything. He practices hard, he wants to be best, tries to do everything to be better, he imagines himself playing at Real Madrid one day. And we have other kid, who doesn't care about football, he just wants to have fun with his friends. The first boy tries hard on practices. Second - fooling around. And you think the second boy deserves the same amount of playing time with the 1st boy?
How long will the first boy's passion last if he sees that "unfairness" every weekend? And I saw lots of that "1st" boys. In fact, most of them quit playing for clubs because of that.

I have lived this scenario first hand and it was a TD that made these decisions. I was the teams coach and was stepping down to allow the TD to take over the Metro team. I supplied a detailed opinion on each player and also their attendance and work ethics. Guess what he did not select my kid (Example of Kid 1 Above) who was a top 4 player on the Metro team. He selected among others a 14/15 year old (Kid 2) that was 6'2" and fast but could not have cared less and attended less than 40% of the training sessions the previous season. Guess what Kid 2 played about 8 more games and has not been heard from since and Kid 1 because he had the passion tried to stick it out for 2 more seasons but has now lost love for the game. The TD has stepped down from coaching and the new coach has been trying to recruit him but he has simply lost the passion.

This has been very tough to be the parent and have no answers for my son. If these are our kids "leaders" we are in a world of trouble.

 

[easoccer]

Its super frustrating, especially when coaches put extra effort into a couple of star players, but then those players move onto other teams or even quit soccer altogether. And now they have developed a couple at the expense of the team and now the bench is thin because those kids didn't get the time or attention.

 

[TKBC]

Its super frustrating, especially when coaches put extra effort into a couple of star players, but then those players move onto other teams or even quit soccer altogether. And now they have developed a couple at the expense of the team and now the bench is thin because those kids didn't get the time or attention.

Exactly why the 50% rule is in place. The bench has to play, otherwise how do you expect them to perform when the team is short, players hurt, kids suspended etc etc. Every kid needs a chance.

Read a report just this week that said of the "top 20 ranked" kids at u12, only 9% of them were still "top 20 ranked" by about age 20.

 

[bigwreck]

Problem is most development (and rec) coaches think they can spot and nurture talent. Then they play the "talented" kids down the middle where they will end up with the most touches and are given a longer leash to move out of position. The lesser players put on the wing and fullback positions lose confidence because they're on a short leash and chided when out of position. See it happen all the time on development teams. Sucked the confidence and fun out of a lot of players.

 

[easoccer]

Its true. When I started coaching I had no clue. Probably the same as most volunteers.

Where can I hide weak players? This is pretty much what you will find on the net.

 

[TKBC]

Problem is most development (and rec) coaches think they can spot and nurture talent. Then they play the "talented" kids down the middle where they will end up with the most touches and are given a longer leash to move out of position. The lesser players put on the wing and fullback positions lose confidence because they're on a short leash and chided when out of position. See it happen all the time on development teams. Sucked the confidence and fun out of a lot of players.

If only coaches knew what the "right" positioning is to begin with Having coached u11-12 many times, including this past season not 1 of our opponents pushed their outside defenders forward, and rarely did the wide players do an adequate defensive job. Equally rarely did the centre back make themselves available to receive a pass.

 

[TKBC]

Its true. When I started coaching I had no clue. Probably the same as most volunteers.

Where can I hide weak players? This is pretty much what you will find on the net.

To be fair, "weaker" players need more time and space than is afforded in a CM, CB, or ST position. Thus they tend to play in wide positions more often, unless the coach can pair them with a stronger player and play two CB, CM or ST. Every team is a bit different. For example I am not going to put a 10 year old that struggles with first touch in the centre of the park against the opponents more advanced technically (and physically?) skilled CM. I'll put him in a position where he can work on what he needs to work on, thus have success, thus have more fun. When he's ready, then play him in a more central position. Or put him in central positions in different scenarios when it appears he may have more success than other times.

 

[Jenny]

That said, kids quit soccer.

I didn't say they quit soccer. I said, they quit club soccer.
All I want to say - Canada soccer system shouldn't be too soft if they want to achieve something. Have you ever seen how play youth in Brasil, Russia, Argentina, England, France?
Simple thing - when a kid gets hurt during the game and ref stops the game, what happens? all kids should "take a knee". Why? Why does that rule exist? it is valuable time for kids to get together and make some kind of discussion what to do, how to change the game. It is a time when the leader of the team can talk to his teammates. I know, it is a small thing, but ...
Another example. The kid scored a beautiful goal. He celebrated that goal in "Ronaldo" way. What happened next? Coach yelled on a kid - "No! We don't do that! We respect them! Don't do that anymore!". The kid was really confused. Ridiculous. I am talking about club soccer coach. And he was DEVELOPMENT team coach. In all other countries kids celebrating the goals "Ronaldo" way, or any other way. And coaches never interfere. Because they want to encourage kids to score more goals, be winners.

 

[bigwreck]

Its true. When I started coaching I had no clue. Probably the same as most volunteers.

Where can I hide weak players? This is pretty much what you will find on the net.

I dont think you can hide weak players. Just rotate them through the positions and let them play and make mistakes or maybe even make a great play, lucky or not. I watched my youngest (U10 house) play last weekend and the skill and compete varied greatly. An attacker made a pretty poor attempt at a 1v1 move and lost the ball easily to the defender. Both kids laughed and I have no idea why, but the kids are just having fun.

 

[bigwreck]

If only coaches knew what the "right" positioning is to begin with Having coached u11-12 many times, including this past season not 1 of our opponents pushed their outside defenders forward, and rarely did the wide players do an adequate defensive job. Equally rarely did the centre back make themselves available to receive a pass.

I believe that is either poor coaching or possibly what I mean by losing confidence. Player lost confidence and too scared to move up and down as a team. Coach is either happy that the weak player learned something about positioning (doesnt cluster) or is too engaged with the game following the ball and noticing the strong players carrying the play. Strong player gets noticed and weak player gets a high five later. Weak player thinks he is playing the right way.

 

[bigwreck]

To be fair, "weaker" players need more time and space than is afforded in a CM, CB, or ST position. Thus they tend to play in wide positions more often, unless the coach can pair them with a stronger player and play two CB, CM or ST. Every team is a bit different. For example I am not going to put a 10 year old that struggles with first touch in the centre of the park against the opponents more advanced technically (and physically?) skilled CM. I'll put him in a position where he can work on what he needs to work on, thus have success, thus have more fun. When he's ready, then play him in a more central position. Or put him in central positions in different scenarios when it appears he may have more success than other times.

TKBC, I agree with you. At U11, there are some good development teams. Even a weaker player is going to have some decent skills and very likely hardworking as well. If the game happens to be unevenly matched, let that weaker player get a chance to play mid.

In the context of the original post, I have a story about first year development teams. U8 or U9 (I dont remember anymore). Two teams comprised of all the best girls from rec. Each of these girls were used to being in the action getting lots of touchs. Even so, coaches believed that the strongest players should play down the middle even though every game was a blow out. The crazy thing is that kids that age in general just dont get positioning especially if you want to compare it to the adult game. If anything playing down the middle would have been a lot easier for every one of those players. The ones playing on the outside had all the confidence coached out of them because they were clearly fighting their instincts to be aggressive meanwhile second guessing themselves on whether they should chase down a ball or drop back. The coaches were great people and well meaning, but those games were all about winning.

 

[bigwreck]

I didn't say they quit soccer. I said, they quit club soccer.
All I want to say - Canada soccer system shouldn't be too soft if they want to achieve something. Have you ever seen how play youth in Brasil, Russia, Argentina, England, France?
Simple thing - when a kid gets hurt during the game and ref stops the game, what happens? all kids should "take a knee". Why? Why does that rule exist? it is valuable time for kids to get together and make some kind of discussion what to do, how to change the game. It is a time when the leader of the team can talk to his teammates. I know, it is a small thing, but ...
Another example. The kid scored a beautiful goal. He celebrated that goal in "Ronaldo" way. What happened next? Coach yelled on a kid - "No! We don't do that! We respect them! Don't do that anymore!". The kid was really confused. Ridiculous. I am talking about club soccer coach. And he was DEVELOPMENT team coach. In all other countries kids celebrating the goals "Ronaldo" way, or any other way. And coaches never interfere. Because they want to encourage kids to score more goals, be winners.

I think kids are taught to take a knee so that they dont all walk up and surround the injured player to see if he's ok. Basically to keep them out of the way and taught at a young age, but they just keep doing it until they get taught to behave differently. With respect to goal celebrations, my experience is different; saw plenty of celebrations on development teams though parent volunteer coaches.

 

[easoccer]

I think kids are taught to take a knee so that they dont all walk up and surround the injured player to see if he's ok. Basically to keep them out of the way and taught at a young age, but they just keep doing it until they get taught to behave differently. With respect to goal celebrations, my experience is different; saw plenty of celebrations on development teams though parent volunteer coaches.

And to show good sportsmanship. There is no rule that states the kids couldnt quickly take a knee close to each other if they needed to have a quick chat. There is usually ample time.

 

[TKBC]

I didn't say they quit soccer. I said, they quit club soccer.
All I want to say - Canada soccer system shouldn't be too soft if they want to achieve something. Have you ever seen how play youth in Brasil, Russia, Argentina, England, France?
Simple thing - when a kid gets hurt during the game and ref stops the game, what happens? all kids should "take a knee". Why? Why does that rule exist? it is valuable time for kids to get together and make some kind of discussion what to do, how to change the game. It is a time when the leader of the team can talk to his teammates. I know, it is a small thing, but ...
Another example. The kid scored a beautiful goal. He celebrated that goal in "Ronaldo" way. What happened next? Coach yelled on a kid - "No! We don't do that! We respect them! Don't do that anymore!". The kid was really confused. Ridiculous. I am talking about club soccer coach. And he was DEVELOPMENT team coach. In all other countries kids celebrating the goals "Ronaldo" way, or any other way. And coaches never interfere. Because they want to encourage kids to score more goals, be winners.

1. I hear ya - other countries develop players. But we aren't other countries. We do not have the sporting culture in this sport to do what other countries might do. We have to do what will work for us. We, in no way, can be compared to other countries yet. The Canadian Premier League MIGHT start to change that if they all have academies and are signing local players.

2. There is no knee rule. It's this super weird tradition that no one I've ever spoken with has any clue where it's from. I don't let my players do it. I call them in and chat with them.

3. Don't celebrate a goal? Depends on the score, I suppose.

 

[TKBC]

I believe that is either poor coaching or possibly what I mean by losing confidence. Player lost confidence and too scared to move up and down as a team. Coach is either happy that the weak player learned something about positioning (doesnt cluster) or is too engaged with the game following the ball and noticing the strong players carrying the play. Strong player gets noticed and weak player gets a high five later. Weak player thinks he is playing the right way.

It's a combo of everything you said. My own team this spring stick to playing goalie in a 5v5 - they are 8-9yrs old. I asked them why they do that. They are scared to lose - so they end up losing because the game becomes 5v4 or 5v3 because 1 or 2 kids park themselves near the goal. Needless to say I don't let them stay playing like that But where does this fear come from? I really don't know - I've never coached kids younger than 8-9, but it flabbergasts me.

 

[TKBC]

TKBC, I agree with you. At U11, there are some good development teams. Even a weaker player is going to have some decent skills and very likely hardworking as well. If the game happens to be unevenly matched, let that weaker player get a chance to play mid.

In the context of the original post, I have a story about first year development teams. U8 or U9 (I dont remember anymore). Two teams comprised of all the best girls from rec. Each of these girls were used to being in the action getting lots of touchs. Even so, coaches believed that the strongest players should play down the middle even though every game was a blow out. The crazy thing is that kids that age in general just dont get positioning especially if you want to compare it to the adult game. If anything playing down the middle would have been a lot easier for every one of those players. The ones playing on the outside had all the confidence coached out of them because they were clearly fighting their instincts to be aggressive meanwhile second guessing themselves on whether they should chase down a ball or drop back. The coaches were great people and well meaning, but those games were all about winning.

I don't put "weaker" players on defence - I put them where it appears they will have the most positive impact based on their needs. That might be forward or wherever. Other team might just put the weaker kids on defence, I don't know.

Reading your story is likely all too common. Likely why the 8-9 year olds on my team so often lack confidence in themselves and fear mistakes already. Not all of them, but maybe half of them? But, I understand this to be the case at most u-little clubs/teams, if not all of them. Makes me wonder where the TD's are? My club has a couple coach that works a lot with these kids, and I know they foster bravery in possession - so where's the gap? My guess is it's game day when the volunteer parent takes over.

 

[Old Girls Coach]

Reading this thread highlights almost everything that is wrong with Soccer in BC. We are trying to run development programs, with dreams of national teams and pro careers, in what are essentially community-based recreational clubs. The vast majority of youth players in BC are playing for fun, for friends, and to learn some lessons on team work, how to work hard and set goals, and for exercise. The few players that might have the skill, drive, and money!! just to make it to the Whitecaps residency/REX shouldn't be the focus of community sports organizations. And yet that's exactly what we're doing.

We are running what amounts to a pay-to-play scheme at these community clubs, we're paying TDs and staff coaches for the "elite" players all the while those coaches are angling for better jobs and need wins and results to get them. Those clubs are desperate to keep their best players, desperate enough to bench lesser talents, cut deals to keep them happy, and even sabotage players thinking of moving to a better program or a club that has a BCPL "franchise". It's the perfect system to abuse pre-teen players and make them quit. If we had a real development plan we would be removing the development programs from the community clubs. We would have all players play in those community clubs but identify the special few who are dedicated, skilled, and have the support to excel and offer them development outside of their club teams. We don't have the professional clubs in Canada capable of doing that so whether we accredit academies or create separate regional clubs, we need to separate leagues, cups, championships, and all the pressure to win from the development of young players.