AGM,S , Constitutions, Voting , Rules

[CanadianSpur]

Just slightly off topic but I was made aware of a situation that occurred at an agm where the president was attempting to raise a motion that the impending vote result had very serious consequences to the club financially. That particular president brought invites to life members to attend the agm as guests which if course is fairly normal.

However those life members via thar constitution were allowed voting priceless.
These life members were being asked to vote on issues they had no knowledge of as they had not been active with the club daily for years.

Unfortunately their vote was ultimately detrimental to the club. Not the life members fault and likely they should have obtained but they didn't.

What does this group feel about life members and voting proverages?

Unfortunately, apathy among parents/members allows boards to pass most motions by inviting sympathetic voting members (they don't have to be life members as not all club constitutions provide for these) to AGMS. With low turn-out, it usually doesn't take a lot of people to sway a vote. Only when there is something truly controversial do you get a large turn out.

As you say up to the life member to vote responsibly and abstain if they are not up to speed on the issue.

 

[soccer mom]

Now that opens up a whole other conversation..I suggest to you that many good doing volunteers raise their hands to be exec members are not made aware that they could become financially responsible and liable.

Couple of discussion points with this....

1. There is insurance a club can purchase to limit that individual risk. As we all know there is insurance for everything. Most clubs are not aware.

2. Should it not be incumbent on the club to explicitly explain liability to that single soccer mom who feels compelled to just help out. ? I don't think this is explained well enough. Does the u12 coordinator in your club know he or she is person ally liable? I doubt it.

Finally at North Delta when the president mcgrandle put the club in serious financial risk through his actions at that clubs last agm it was darn lucky that the legal proceedings settled out of court and was minimized to what the club could afford through its reserves otherwise as previously mentioned in the earlier post the financial risk could have been placed onto the board members. Supreme Court costs are upwards of 15000 per day and most trials book out at 3 day trials minimum.

To this day I suspect the current north delta exec are still unaware of this little known fact.
Fortunate that bc soccer removed that individual in time.

 

[soccer mom]

they said "uuuhhh ok" which suggests sarcasm on the world of internet discussion

BTW - my appologies on texting....uhhhh OK. I wasn't aware that was considered sarcasm. I was being genuine the previous post did clarify and made sense.

 

[TKBC]

BTW - my appologies on texting....uhhhh OK. I wasn't aware that was considered sarcasm. I was being genuine the previous post did clarify and made sense.

I shouldn't assume. But, that's why I asked (and pointed out I wasn't trying to be rude!).

 

[TKBC]

Now that opens up a whole other conversation..I suggest to you that many good doing volunteers raise their hands to be exec members are not made aware that they could become financially responsible and liable.

Couple of discussion points with this....

1. There is insurance a club can purchase to limit that individual risk. As we all know there is insurance for everything. Most clubs are not aware.

2. Should it not be incumbent on the club to explicitly explain liability to that single soccer mom who feels compelled to just help out. ? I don't think this is explained well enough. Does the u12 coordinator in your club know he or she is person ally liable? I doubt it.

Finally at North Delta when the president mcgrandle put the club in serious financial risk through his actions at that clubs last agm it was darn lucky that the legal proceedings settled out of court and was minimized to what the club could afford through its reserves otherwise as previously mentioned in the earlier post the financial risk could have been placed onto the board members. Supreme Court costs are upwards of 15000 per day and most trials book out at 3 day trials minimum.

To this day I suspect the current north delta exec are still unaware of this little known fact.
Fortunate that bc soccer removed that individual in time.

Re: 1 - I am on an NFP (non-soccer) and didn't know. Although we did amend our organization so board members are not liable financially (in consultation with Society Act and CRA).

Re: 2 - The board itself may or may not realize this so for individual members to not realize would not be shocking. But, I imagine before a board member can be held personally liable a lot of factors would have to be considered (I don't know what those factors would be). I don't think it's something very easily done to hold a board member liable.

Re: Delta - I am a President of a board, and I don't understand what the president could have done to cost the club money. Presidents can't act on a whim, and can't sign for things without a 2nd person also signing. But, maybe the president was and then someone realized the president can't do that (not trying to gossip - my postulation is re: NFP board presidents in general).

 

[LauraH]

Regarding life members voting, I don't think it should happen. It's very easy for boards to call in their life members to vote on a resolution, which are often issues the life members have no knowledge of (as they are removed from all that's going on). However, it gains numbers for the vote, whichever way they want it to go. It happened at our AGM last year, with life members standing up to comment on a resolution to change the voting structure. People that have been out of the club for years have an opinion. Ridiculous.

 

[LauraH]

Regarding life members voting, I don't think it should happen. It's very easy for boards to call in their life members to vote on a resolution, which are often issues the life members have no knowledge of (as they are removed from all that's going on). However, it gains numbers for the vote, whichever way they want it to go. It happened at our AGM last year, with life members standing up to comment on a resolution to change the voting structure. People that have been out of the club for years have an opinion. Ridiculous.

And voting on it, of course!!

 

[TKBC]

Regarding life members voting, I don't think it should happen. It's very easy for boards to call in their life members to vote on a resolution, which are often issues the life members have no knowledge of (as they are removed from all that's going on). However, it gains numbers for the vote, whichever way they want it to go. It happened at our AGM last year, with life members standing up to comment on a resolution to change the voting structure. People that have been out of the club for years have an opinion. Ridiculous.

I agree. A smart board that allows for Life Members would also require those members attend at least 75% of the board meetings in a 12 month period to be allowed then to vote. If they don't meet the attendance requirements they can attend the AGM but not vote.

 

[soccer mom]

I shouldn't assume. But, that's why I asked (and pointed out I wasn't trying to be rude!).

no worries. certainly email and texting can be ambiguous.

 

[soccer mom]

Re: 1 - I am on an NFP (non-soccer) and didn't know. Although we did amend our organization so board members are not liable financially (in consultation with Society Act and CRA).

Re: 2 - The board itself may or may not realize this so for individual members to not realize would not be shocking. But, I imagine before a board member can be held personally liable a lot of factors would have to be considered (I don't know what those factors would be). I don't think it's something very easily done to hold a board member liable.

Re: Delta - I am a President of a board, and I don't understand what the president could have done to cost the club money. Presidents can't act on a whim, and can't sign for things without a 2nd person also signing. But, maybe the president was and then someone realized the president can't do that (not trying to gossip - my postulation is re: NFP board presidents in general).

regarding the president of a board - typically that person chairs the proceedings of the AGM and as indicated in the societies act they are to remain impartial. In this particular case that likely didnt occur and as a result the meeting was biased. It led to legal issues that in turn cost the club financially. Also as a result of the AGM proceedings the gaming grant was refused. (all speculation and I am hearing 3rd hand from a former board member and bookeeper of that club). What is fact is the former President was suspended for a lengthy period by BC Soccer. What is also fact is the gaming grant was denied. Clearly operating budgets need to be passed without assuming the gaming grant is coming but lets be honest many clubs rely on that money to operate. So if you consider legal costs and loss of grant that puts a club in financial despair. That is how this president cost the club money. If the legal battle went to federal court as I understand has occurred with another club (not North Delta) than these costs could put the single mom (u12 coordinator) in a liable position.

As mentioned also i do not know how much of this is binding but I still believe it is incumbent on the board to provide as much clarity on this issue so that volunteers with votes can make educated decisions and not emotional ones.

 

[Jenn]

Regarding life members voting, I don't think it should happen. It's very easy for boards to call in their life members to vote on a resolution, which are often issues the life members have no knowledge of (as they are removed from all that's going on). However, it gains numbers for the vote, whichever way they want it to go. It happened at our AGM last year, with life members standing up to comment on a resolution to change the voting structure. People that have been out of the club for years have an opinion. Ridiculous.

I totally agree on this. Last year my husband who is an assistant coach for two of our son's teams and was not allowed to vote at our club's AGM but they brought in two women who he had never seen before and thanked them for coming because they were Lifetime members and gave them voting cards. I am not sure how a club could think they should have more of a say than the volunteers who help run a club. What do Lifetime members do? Do they know anything about how things are at a club? I am still confused by this. After the AGM things changed at our club someone was fired at the meeting. Someone else disappeared after the meeting, there are rumors of legal action and other things. No one seems to know what happened or maybe they do but are not willing to say.

 

[LauraH]

I totally agree on this. Last year my husband who is an assistant coach for two of our son's teams and was not allowed to vote at our club's AGM but they brought in two women who he had never seen before and thanked them for coming because they were Lifetime members and gave them voting cards. I am not sure how a club could think they should have more of a say than the volunteers who help run a club. What do Lifetime members do? Do they know anything about how things are at a club? I am still confused by this. After the AGM things changed at our club someone was fired at the meeting. Someone else disappeared after the meeting, there are rumors of legal action and other things. No one seems to know what happened or maybe they do but are not willing to say.

At our AGM they even allowed paid coaches to vote. Lol.

 

[Jenn]

At our AGM they even allowed paid coaches to vote. Lol.

Wow! I guess I am pretty naive or haven't been around soccer enough but I am totally surprised by the things I have heard happen at these AGMs. I can't imagine any other business being run in these ways.

 

[LauraH]

Wow! I guess I am pretty naive or haven't been around soccer enough but I am totally surprised by the things I have heard happen at these AGMs. I can't imagine any other business being run in these ways.

Stick around and you'll be less and less surprised what people will do for their ego and some power. As for me, I'm changing clubs. Thankfully.

 

[Jenn]

Stick around and you'll be less and less surprised what people will do for their ego and some power. As for me, I'm changing clubs. Thankfully.

How as a parent do you even know what is a good club? I started reading these forums because someone told me I might find out some things here. I just wonder what people think of clubs in the area. If I leave North Delta where is a good club?

 

[LauraH]

How as a parent do you even know what is a good club? I started reading these forums because someone told me I might find out some things here. I just wonder what people think of clubs in the area. If I leave North Delta where is a good club?

There's lots of info on these forums. Word of mouth is the biggest way. I can't even follow the Surrey soccer scene/multiple clubs there, but it seems like a mess. From ND wouldn't Coastal be an option?

 

[Jenn]

There's lots of info on these forums. Word of mouth is the biggest way. I can't even follow the Surrey soccer scene/multiple clubs there, but it seems like a mess. From ND wouldn't Coastal be an option?

Yes, I agree all the Surrey clubs seem so confusing. Coastal is fairly close. I have heard a lot of ND players have started playing there. Maybe it is worth checking out.

 

[rich]

Every club has its politics...and the grass is always greener, etc etc. A few clubs have different voting rules in their bylaws. Interested to see how much scrutiny those are put under with the new BC Soccer Club Charter program.

@Jenn Coastal seems to run a pretty tight ship, I think they do things the right way.

South Delta could be an option for you as well, depending on where in ND you are. (disclaimer - I am involved with the South Delta club)

 

[Jenn]

Every club has its politics...and the grass is always greener, etc etc. A few clubs have different voting rules in their bylaws. Interested to see how much scrutiny those are put under with the new BC Soccer Club Charter program.

@Jenn Coastal seems to run a pretty tight ship, I think they do things the right way.

South Delta could be an option for you as well, depending on where in ND you are. (disclaimer - I am involved with the South Delta club)

Thank you, Rich. I understand what you are saying about the grass always being greener. I agree. I just feel like there is more going on at ND than what I know. I will look at Coastal and the South Delta clubs.

 

[TKBC]

Definitely yes, have to operate the club with the assumption you will not be receiving the gaming grant.

Paid coaches can vote at some clubs? That doesn't seem right....I don't believe TD's can vote, for example (and that definitely makes sense).

Grass is always greener at other clubs....until you get there. Delta may well be very worth sticking with - especially if they can turn the ship around and learn from their mistakes. South Delta is new and is a combination of good clubs - it's likely going to be a nice place to enroll. Coastal has a strong rep, as does Surrey United.