Soccer-dad-NV
Member
- Oct 14, 2015
- 46
4D schedules
- Thread starter Neil Lloyd
- Start date
Soccer-dad-NV
Member
- Oct 14, 2015
- 46
Total-Base
Can you please elaborate on your comments below?
{Mega clubs really do not do much for soccer. Way more kids fall through the cracks. Clubs like North shore have 10 teams in bronze level to win at all cost. What does that do in developing players in general?}
I've coached my son's team in 'house' and 'select' in North Van. I'm not sure I'd agree with the 'win at all cost mentality' but I have not seen every coach in action either. I will say that it is harder to make it on a select team in a big club but that also raises the level of play when good players are left on house teams. I used find it frustrating that there were a number of kids left off select teams when you compared the skill level at some other clubs. I've come to realize that if a kid really has skill they will be noticed sooner or later. Some clubs struggle with numbers to field a 'select' team. Perhaps if other clubs are realistic there would be no select teams with 0-15 or 1-14 win loss records. There does need to be a standard of play to strive for. The cream always rises to the top. In my sons case I always thought he could play at a higher level the past few seasons. With 8 players moving the BCSPL this year he finally gets that oppurtunity. He's worked hard to get there and developed well with a good work ethic. Now at the metro level he is not out of place at all. Every case is different but the system worked in his case. There are about 4-5 players that played gold 2 last year on his team and they seams to be as strong as any in thier league. Evaluations can be stressful ( probably more on the parents). It's crazy to see
350-400 kids in an age group with 75 skilled kids vying for a spot on on a silver team where there are 22 roster spots. No wonder North Van teams are strong in house. As a parent coach for 6 years I've questioned some changes from U7-U13. Seeing the number of kids developed from all levels I now can see the results of these changes. A lot more players moving to HPL. Strong teams at all levels. Good numbers at practice and games for most teams. Kids having fun and registering to play year after year is usually a good sign. Yes there are probably some teams that are very competative player in house in North Van. There are also a lot of boys wanting to move up to the next level. One U13 Silver 1 team had more than half thier players in house last season. They'll be near the top of the league table when the season ends most likely. We all know that player development is the priority and having kids play at the correct level of their ability is a key factor. Nort Van is not perfect, and if your kid just wants to play for fun there is team for him too. Just be prepared for that team to probably have good numbers out. This in itself allow team coaches to have good training sessions which lead to successful teams.
So perhaps this became more of an answer rather than a question.
It is interesting reading things on this site and realizing that I've been lucky to be involved in this club as I've never experienced most of the drama some clubs seem to have. We've lived in this little bubble where over 1,000 parent volunteers are involved. The biggest issue our club faces is getting more than 4 turf fields for over 3,600 boys and men as well as other user groups. That and finding a suitable space for a club house. First world problems indeed.
Can you please elaborate on your comments below?
{Mega clubs really do not do much for soccer. Way more kids fall through the cracks. Clubs like North shore have 10 teams in bronze level to win at all cost. What does that do in developing players in general?}
I've coached my son's team in 'house' and 'select' in North Van. I'm not sure I'd agree with the 'win at all cost mentality' but I have not seen every coach in action either. I will say that it is harder to make it on a select team in a big club but that also raises the level of play when good players are left on house teams. I used find it frustrating that there were a number of kids left off select teams when you compared the skill level at some other clubs. I've come to realize that if a kid really has skill they will be noticed sooner or later. Some clubs struggle with numbers to field a 'select' team. Perhaps if other clubs are realistic there would be no select teams with 0-15 or 1-14 win loss records. There does need to be a standard of play to strive for. The cream always rises to the top. In my sons case I always thought he could play at a higher level the past few seasons. With 8 players moving the BCSPL this year he finally gets that oppurtunity. He's worked hard to get there and developed well with a good work ethic. Now at the metro level he is not out of place at all. Every case is different but the system worked in his case. There are about 4-5 players that played gold 2 last year on his team and they seams to be as strong as any in thier league. Evaluations can be stressful ( probably more on the parents). It's crazy to see
350-400 kids in an age group with 75 skilled kids vying for a spot on on a silver team where there are 22 roster spots. No wonder North Van teams are strong in house. As a parent coach for 6 years I've questioned some changes from U7-U13. Seeing the number of kids developed from all levels I now can see the results of these changes. A lot more players moving to HPL. Strong teams at all levels. Good numbers at practice and games for most teams. Kids having fun and registering to play year after year is usually a good sign. Yes there are probably some teams that are very competative player in house in North Van. There are also a lot of boys wanting to move up to the next level. One U13 Silver 1 team had more than half thier players in house last season. They'll be near the top of the league table when the season ends most likely. We all know that player development is the priority and having kids play at the correct level of their ability is a key factor. Nort Van is not perfect, and if your kid just wants to play for fun there is team for him too. Just be prepared for that team to probably have good numbers out. This in itself allow team coaches to have good training sessions which lead to successful teams.
So perhaps this became more of an answer rather than a question.
It is interesting reading things on this site and realizing that I've been lucky to be involved in this club as I've never experienced most of the drama some clubs seem to have. We've lived in this little bubble where over 1,000 parent volunteers are involved. The biggest issue our club faces is getting more than 4 turf fields for over 3,600 boys and men as well as other user groups. That and finding a suitable space for a club house. First world problems indeed.
Base - More people are not playing soccer compared to hockey because soccer has a better program. There are other factors.
As for the rest of your post - I appreciate your passion but I'll encourage you to stick to one talking point. You take yourself on tangents and end up making vast sweeping generalizations that are incorrect. The system set-up does need to change. This I agree with you.
My suggestion, and I've said it before - set-up a BCSPL 1-2-3. Keep the leagues closed - at least for now. Have standards for each division, easing the standards from 1 to 2, then again easing them from 2 to 3. 2 would effectively be MSL. 3 would effectively be Div 1/Gold. No need to cancel the current set-up. Just create this new league and ask clubs to apply to enter. Clubs that meet the minimum standards get accepted.
If you have 3 BCSPL tiers with standards you'll find kids make their way to the top tier more fluidly, and clubs working together more hand-in-hand. IMO.
I agree, BCSPL costs way too much.
As for the rest of your post - I appreciate your passion but I'll encourage you to stick to one talking point. You take yourself on tangents and end up making vast sweeping generalizations that are incorrect. The system set-up does need to change. This I agree with you.
My suggestion, and I've said it before - set-up a BCSPL 1-2-3. Keep the leagues closed - at least for now. Have standards for each division, easing the standards from 1 to 2, then again easing them from 2 to 3. 2 would effectively be MSL. 3 would effectively be Div 1/Gold. No need to cancel the current set-up. Just create this new league and ask clubs to apply to enter. Clubs that meet the minimum standards get accepted.
If you have 3 BCSPL tiers with standards you'll find kids make their way to the top tier more fluidly, and clubs working together more hand-in-hand. IMO.
I agree, BCSPL costs way too much.
easoccer
Established Member
- Aug 27, 2015
- 862
I agree there should be more than 4 divisions at the club level. They should try their best to have divisions where the teams are close to .500 as possible. 1-11 or 11-1 records are not good for anyone. If you win as many as you lose you are in the right place. I have no idea why, in District 5, that they scrapped the 8 division format (G1,G2, S1, S2, etc) about 5 years ago for this 4 division version.
I agree Div 1 and 2 have too many teams. Div 1 in my last few years had 16-18 teams. Cut those in half. Top half is Div 1. Bottom half is Div 2. The current div 2 gets relabeled div 3. Enough with this Div 1A, 1B nonsense. It's just a way to appease the masses and trick them into thinking they are in "div 1" when in truth, they aren't. It's not fair to the players, the parents, nor the kids that are actually in the top Div 1 tier.
Div 1-2-3-4. You have enough current teams in the current Div 1-2 set-up to create those 4 divisions. Drop the current div 3 and 4 to house/rec because it is house/rec soccer from u13+. In u11-12 there are so many teams having many divisions makes sense.
Total -Base
Member
- Sep 25, 2016
- 62
Soccer Dad, first to let you know I mean what I said in a positive way. What I was trying to point out with Div soccer moving up and dropping to lover level will bring out more from each coach and each club. If you have a club like North Van you need two HPL teams in each div. Playing with Mountain FC stops tons of your kids from development. If BC soccer wants to have HPL than they have to make it from div one to div three. Clubs moving up and down as they do. This way you will get best players to the top. It will stop in fights with MSL program and it would help kids playing gold level to come up and develop. Rest close and play house development in each area. North shore house teams play each other,Vancouver teams play each other. Burnaby teams play each other. This would help house kids to develop better. Once a year have Tournament for house, all clubs go in.Once a year have HPL play US clubs to see where you are. House div's teams the same setup as HPL from div one to div three. The way it is now you have bronze kids playing in S1 that alone will destroy any development. Beating teams 10 nothing does nothing for development all it does by the age U16 you will have sixty percent kids quit soccer.
I like what BC stands for cut our club board members do not think about of development of the kids.
We need to grow up and think like Americans where their kids make over $100 000.00 a year or more to play soccer. Our kids sit on the bench due to lover development. At the costs in HPL we should be shipping 10 to fifteen kids a year to England with paid jobs. The way it is now I just can not see it. Cost has to bee half of what it is now. We need to import few coaches from Latin countries and few from Eastern block to help our kids develop with new ideas.
We can do it if we open our minds and think of our kids future, It's good to have fun but if one can not get pay after 19 years of age one has to stop soccer and get a job or go to University. Play in a beer league for fun.
I like what BC stands for cut our club board members do not think about of development of the kids.
We need to grow up and think like Americans where their kids make over $100 000.00 a year or more to play soccer. Our kids sit on the bench due to lover development. At the costs in HPL we should be shipping 10 to fifteen kids a year to England with paid jobs. The way it is now I just can not see it. Cost has to bee half of what it is now. We need to import few coaches from Latin countries and few from Eastern block to help our kids develop with new ideas.
We can do it if we open our minds and think of our kids future, It's good to have fun but if one can not get pay after 19 years of age one has to stop soccer and get a job or go to University. Play in a beer league for fun.
Soccer-dad-NV
Member
- Oct 14, 2015
- 46
Total-Base
Thanks for clarifiying. I agree 100% with what you are saying. Metro should become the highest level of the club system. Call it Div 1/Gold etc. HPL could have reserve teams or BCPL div 2 etc. That way fewer kids would have to be 'cut'. Simply drop a player to the reserve team and bring one up. If a kid in BCPL div 1 needs game time they could be dropped/ transferred permitted or whatever you want to call it. Maybe since teams could train and play similar schedules it could lower the cost? Same coaches, more numbers etc. I'm sure there's a way.
North Van is trying to lead the way in LTDP directive. There is a lot more that can be done but we need the standard at every club to rise to achieve the competition needed.
How can you have metro at the highest level of the club system but then also have BCSPL?
I suggest:
u13+
1. BCSPL 1 (current BCSPL)
2. BCSPL 2 (current MSL)
3. BCSPL 3 (current top div 1/Gold)
*set standards for each, reducing those standards, and regionalizing as you move down the ladder. Promotion/relegation based on wins-losses is not the way to go.
...
1. Select 1 (Current Gold/Div 1 & top silver/Div 2)
2. Select 2 (Current Silver)
*set standards for these but at the minimal level as these levels would essentially be recreational but with opportunity to develop increased access to technical training with educated staff.
...
Rec soccer - totally regional, no standards outside the normal.
Soccer-dad-NV
Member
- Oct 14, 2015
- 46
That looks good TKBC. A common sense approach seems logical but in reality beaurocracy seems to slow down the changes needed in a quicker time frame.
Hopefully Jason Devos will have some input. I like what I've heard him say in the past with ideas for grass roots soccer. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just set standards and get everyone on board (easier said than done). There is a way to develop top players, rec players and have fun. It does not have to cost an arm and a leg. We do have to pool our resources to have any hope of success though.
Hopefully Jason Devos will have some input. I like what I've heard him say in the past with ideas for grass roots soccer. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just set standards and get everyone on board (easier said than done). There is a way to develop top players, rec players and have fun. It does not have to cost an arm and a leg. We do have to pool our resources to have any hope of success though.
CanadianSpur
Member
- Feb 11, 2016
- 84
BCSPL is planning a reserve division or BCSPL2 which hopefully will be in place by next season.
Soccer-dad-NV
Member
- Oct 14, 2015
- 46
That would be fantastic. It would achieve two things. Create a standards-based 2nd tier. And streamline MSL.
Total -Base
Member
- Sep 25, 2016
- 62
Good guys you are on the proper path. HPL or SPL it really does not matter. What matters is that kids can come up to play in highest level. With three teams in each group club has more power to get field time for practices and games. Cost can drop to half as it is now.We have to go like Europe no permits needed for a players in div three to go and play a game in div one, one guy per game can drop to div two to play on a div two roster. Cup games no movement from team to team.This will develop way more kids at higher level. Top teams must play against US teams to improve over all play at least twice a year. We must give our kids a chance to make Div one college. That will open up a space for MLS draft. Whitecaps only take hand-full of kids we need bigger pool in each area to improve our National standard.
As soon as we do that we need to add four more NASL teams in Canada to give our kids way to upper level. Saskatoon would be good place. Calgary would be good place. Victoria would be good place. And in my opinion Surrey the best place. With that 5 Canadian kids in the starting lineups a must, after first half of the game open to all.
This is the only way we will be able to make it to next stage of the World Soccer.
As soon as we do that we need to add four more NASL teams in Canada to give our kids way to upper level. Saskatoon would be good place. Calgary would be good place. Victoria would be good place. And in my opinion Surrey the best place. With that 5 Canadian kids in the starting lineups a must, after first half of the game open to all.
This is the only way we will be able to make it to next stage of the World Soccer.
Base, joining NASL is not the answer. It's an unstable league because it doesn't appear to have any ability to overtake MLS and there's no promotion-relegation. Adding 4 more pro teams is certainly needed - but it will, and should be, in the form of the Canadian Premier League which is looking at at least 8 new teams. Canadians can't be relying on USA for development. USA has proven they have no interest in doing anything other than taking our money, and no one can begrudge them for that.
Total -Base
Member
- Sep 25, 2016
- 62
TKBC I see your point and understand it. If we add four teams we could have six Canadian teams in. Once we do that then expand two more and rename it to CPSL. First you need to have everything in place than make a move.
Our boards members are all over the place now it will not happen unless we go NASL first. Just look at Edmonton and Ottawa they are both fine.
They both have youth and senior programs for girls and boys. BC Soccer is not going to do it for us. With addition of Canadian teams we could save way more than Edmonton and Ottawa do now. It is all about costs when you first start after few years you get a chance to kink it all out. We must go slow and steady to set it up guys up top in CNP have no time or money to help us out. This must be done by people with money. We have tons of kids but no pay cheque the all pack it in by twenty three, and just play for fun.
I heard they will post scores after this weekend. on four district page.
Our boards members are all over the place now it will not happen unless we go NASL first. Just look at Edmonton and Ottawa they are both fine.
They both have youth and senior programs for girls and boys. BC Soccer is not going to do it for us. With addition of Canadian teams we could save way more than Edmonton and Ottawa do now. It is all about costs when you first start after few years you get a chance to kink it all out. We must go slow and steady to set it up guys up top in CNP have no time or money to help us out. This must be done by people with money. We have tons of kids but no pay cheque the all pack it in by twenty three, and just play for fun.
I heard they will post scores after this weekend. on four district page.
Total -Base
Member
- Sep 25, 2016
- 62
All of you out there PDL league team is coming to Vancouver via Total Soccer. In my opinion huge step forward for local kids to be exposed to Div one Universities in US. I am sure many kids and fox will come out and support the team.
Team most likely will end up in a group with Portland and Seattle. Cheers to a guy that did that for local kids. Lots of kids from district four go to his camps. This also opens up a line to National program from U 15 and up bypassing control of HPL and Caps.
Teams from western Canada in PDL are Victoria Highlanders and Calgary Foothills now team from here I am not sure what name they will use. Dragons would be fine by me. Cheers sir Elms Cheers.
Team most likely will end up in a group with Portland and Seattle. Cheers to a guy that did that for local kids. Lots of kids from district four go to his camps. This also opens up a line to National program from U 15 and up bypassing control of HPL and Caps.
Teams from western Canada in PDL are Victoria Highlanders and Calgary Foothills now team from here I am not sure what name they will use. Dragons would be fine by me. Cheers sir Elms Cheers.
Admin
Administrator
- Feb 23, 2015
- 392
No standings / results (U13-U18) but for those who don't know, updated schedules for 4 District are now available for the rest of the season.
U11 - U12:
4 District Soccer League U11-U12 Schedules
U13 - U18:
4-District U13-U18 Winter 2016-17 Schedules
U11 - U12:
4 District Soccer League U11-U12 Schedules
U13 - U18:
4-District U13-U18 Winter 2016-17 Schedules
Total -Base
Member
- Sep 25, 2016
- 62
In U11 and U12 they did shift teams around for kids to have more fun. It's nice to see that board did bit of work. For U11 and U12 they will not post the scores only U13 and up. I really wonder why so long to post the scores.
Soccer_dude
Member
- May 25, 2016
- 67
They just need to pay someone $100 a week & get the scores out in a timely manner.
This wait has been ridiculous. I read on the 4d website that the person responsible passed away & it said he was in charge of msl & 5d, but those scores for those leagues are constantly being updated. So something isn't adding up.
Can you imagine no scores being posted for youth hockey leagues a1 or a2? I don't want to sound results based, but it's how we kind of judge other teams & see there recent form before playing them. There needs to be better organization. Thank goodness for division liaisons emailing scores, but 1/4 into the season, standings & carry over points need to be up.
This wait has been ridiculous. I read on the 4d website that the person responsible passed away & it said he was in charge of msl & 5d, but those scores for those leagues are constantly being updated. So something isn't adding up.
Can you imagine no scores being posted for youth hockey leagues a1 or a2? I don't want to sound results based, but it's how we kind of judge other teams & see there recent form before playing them. There needs to be better organization. Thank goodness for division liaisons emailing scores, but 1/4 into the season, standings & carry over points need to be up.
Total -Base
Member
- Sep 25, 2016
- 62
No one will post the scores for $100.00 dollars. Five six hundred a year they will do it. Kids pay more than enough to practice on third of a field.
I did see three U11 games, teams are having more fun playing teams with equal skill looks bit better. As far as posting scores I think Dis 4 board needs to do something about it. President sits on three board groups it is slipping by him. He needs to address the problem.
He might be watching Donald and bad ass Hills chomp on each other. It would be fun to watch them two oil fight. BCSPL div one and two is the same soccer. Div one only takes guys that can play. Div two is for guys with no money. Div three is gold best for development of each player.
Nothing ever changes. Same old thing. Did you see what they posted on U13 to U18 as far as levels. Gold1 A, gold B and on.
Sad to see one must tell kids gold is div three silver is div four bronze is div 5. Why are the beating around the bush.
Kids are not dumb they know what's going on.
I did see three U11 games, teams are having more fun playing teams with equal skill looks bit better. As far as posting scores I think Dis 4 board needs to do something about it. President sits on three board groups it is slipping by him. He needs to address the problem.
He might be watching Donald and bad ass Hills chomp on each other. It would be fun to watch them two oil fight. BCSPL div one and two is the same soccer. Div one only takes guys that can play. Div two is for guys with no money. Div three is gold best for development of each player.
Nothing ever changes. Same old thing. Did you see what they posted on U13 to U18 as far as levels. Gold1 A, gold B and on.
Sad to see one must tell kids gold is div three silver is div four bronze is div 5. Why are the beating around the bush.
Kids are not dumb they know what's going on.