Why don't we have make up games?

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by 20/20, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. 20/20

    20/20 Member

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    We keep track of wins, losses, GF, GA but we can't replay a game that is cancelled due to weather. Some of the turf fields are unplayable because of pooling water and the game is cancelled but other fields are playable so the the points are awarded to the winning team.

    Games are still played on grass fields and some Clubs have no alternative pitch. If the field is closed no game or make up game!

    The kids see it as an uneven playing field,
    this takes away the incentive for the players and the ability for teams to compete equally.

    20/20
     
  2. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    teams do have make-up games. there are plenty of rules in place governing make-up games.
     
  3. 20/20

    20/20 Member

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    Hi TKBC,

    This is out of the 4D Guide:
    No Make-Up Games

    As un-booked field space is limited in most districts, in order to be fair to the majority of teams there will be no make-up games.

    This includes games that are cancelled due to weather-related or unplayable field conditions.
     
  4. 20/20

    20/20 Member

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    This is the Vancouver/Burnaby/Richmond/North Van league.

    Sometimes we include Bowen Island/Squamish/Pemberton/Whistler and these games get cancelled because of the extreme weather.
     
  5. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Wow. I am from D5 and have never had an issue with arranging make-up - in fact the league requires them to be done. So unless D5 also cancelled make-up games this year this is unique to D4!

    My suggestion would be this - no make-up games for Division 2-House/rec. But Div 1-BCSPL all have make-up games.
     
  6. southsloper

    southsloper Member

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    If the concern about lack of make-up games in 4DL, is in regards to final season standings, i.e. affect a teams' eligibility for cup play, would the section (just above the "No Make Up Games" text) be relevant to the discussion?

    ---cut-here---
    Standings / Declaring a Winner
    At the end of the season, the U-13 to U-18 team with the highest number of points will be declared the winner, unless a team(s) that has played fewer games could equal or exceed the points leader (number of fewer games played x 3 points). In this situation co-winners will be declared. The total number of games played before Thanksgiving are included no matter which league section they were in before that time.
    ---cut-here---
     
  7. jmoulins

    jmoulins Member

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    Simple fix. Why not move the season to a time of year when the weather isn't a factor? Our kids miss 2-3 games and numerous practices every season to bad weather, and play another 3-4 games in cold and rain.
     
  8. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I know in our district if we cancel a game the opposition has the right to host the game if space is available. Is this the case in D4?
     
  9. 20/20

    20/20 Member

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    There is no space built into our schedule for make up games. As Southsloper has mentioned a team(s) that has played fewer games could equal or exceed the points leader (number of fewer games played x 3 points). In this situation co-winners will be declared.

    So the best your team can do if you had games cancelled is to be a co-winner.

    Every year there are games that get cancelled due to weather. They should have a week set aside for the make up games. This would give more meaning to the standings and becoming league winners.
     
  10. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    Grass fields are closed off many times and its difficult to find turf time but teams should be allowed to make up all games they have missed , especially the teams that were recently moved into U17 Div 1 & Div 2 - both these teams can challenge for a top 4 finish if allowed to play their missed games.
     
  11. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    Some teams in Dist 5 U17 have played 1 -2 games less than other teams and those potential 3 or 6 points would have helped these teams to finish in the top 6 . This is unfair and should be sorted out
     
  12. jmoulins

    jmoulins Member

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    Maybe play the season any time of year other than Nov-February? When it's highly unlikely games would be cancelled for any reason?
     
  13. 20/20

    20/20 Member

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    I don't think changing the season will make a difference. We live in Vancouver and it rains here a lot. This will also creates conflict with other sports like baseball which means the kids will have to choose one or the other. I think we just need to open up weeks in the schedule or extend the season one or two more weeks or create games mid-week in the evening to make these games up.
     
  14. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    In this years case it is not really the fault of the league and it has happened in a lot of divisions, mostly those who had games on grass. We had 3 weeks in a row rained out, and then 2 weeks with frozen ground. Fair or not it's the way it goes as there was only one makeup weekend on the schedule and most teams would probably decline a weeknight game. Also, teams with more than one makeup game usually want to pick and chose based on which team they feel they can beat, and that team is not always available as others have the same idea.

    We play in a climate that generally has cancellations and most coaches can expect there to be some missed games in the season.

    My team had wins that were removed after tiering. Now instead of being first we are mid pack. I think earned points should be kept. Any its off topic to this thread.
     
  15. rich

    rich Active Member

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    We've been lucky, and we've only had 1 game not played over the last 2 years. Got all of ours in this year. Admittedly, it took some work to get it done. District handed out some fines to clubs who's teams did not work at getting games replayed.

    The difference btwn 4 District and 5 District is astounding...no make up games in 4D, whereas 5D REQUIRES all games to be made up, if at all possible. Is it a field availability issue in 4D??
     
  16. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    4D retiers multiple times I believe (I think after 4 or 5 games it seems), so if a game is missed there isnt really any point in making it up.
     
  17. 20/20

    20/20 Member

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    And that is my point. The points system in 4D make it so it doesn't really matter. I also had my team retier to the next division and received the average number of points in that new division. We have only lost 1 game and it is mathematically impossible to reach 1st place even though we beat the team that is top of the division?????? Try to explain that to a competitive group of boys.
     
  18. jmoulins

    jmoulins Member

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    Sorry, but this argument about a conflict with baseball just doesn't cut it. We schedule our kids to play soccer in the only 3 months of the year when games are likely to be canceled due to weather. When it's virtually impossible to play games on our grass fields. In 8 years of coaching winter and spring soccer, I've seen exactly one spring practice canceled due to a lightning storm. In a good season of winter (September-February) soccer we'll see 6+ games and practices canceled due to cold and snow. The only reason we don't see more pushback from parents is because we force our 8 year olds to choose between playing hockey and soccer. We lose many potential players -and I'd argue, most of our best young athletes- to hockey.

    Google the 1986 Canadian Men's World Cup team. Apart from the new immigrants and one Albertan, every player on that team came from BC. Now look at the number of BC players on today's national soccer teams, men's and women's. Last I looked there was one BCer on each team.

    Now look at the number of recent NHL draft picks from BC, or the number of players on our national women's hockey team. The numbers indicate to me that our best athletes are choosing hockey over soccer.

    Soccer is going to conflict with other sports no matter when we play the games. We can either make it directly conflict with hockey (and rugby, basketball and other school sports) by playing through the cold and rain of October-March, or we can have it conflict with baseball in the spring and summer.

    We don't hear complaints from the parents of 12 year olds who were forced to choose between hockey and soccer because in most cases they chose hockey, often reluctantly, but understandably. Everything else being equal, If I had to choose between 8 o'clock hockey games in an arena and 8:30 soccer games in driving rain on a gravel field..... Well, I'm surprised we keep as many players as we do.

    In the rest of Canada, soccer is a warm-weather sport and it's thriving. In coastal BC the main soccer season is a test of endurance, as if we're trying to "weed out the weak ones", and soccer is stagnating.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  19. rich

    rich Active Member

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    Three of the fields we use for soccer in the fall and winter are unavailable to us in the spring due to baseball. How is that not conflicting? We had to postpone our U6-U7 jamborees in September because of baseball provincials. The conflict is a valid argument.

    Soccer in spring will conflict with baseball...which uses the same fields.
    Soccer in fall will conflict with hockey. Oh well...kids need to make a choice.

    While I would love to spend my coaching weekends in shorts and shades, rather than stadium jackets and mukluks, to be perfectly honest, I would rather spend the nice weather weekends camping with my own boys, hiking, hitting the beach etc, rather than driving around to soccer.

    Just my opinion. I'm not that put off by a little rain.
     
  20. 20/20

    20/20 Member

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    Conflict or not.
    Hockey is the #1 sport in Canada and that is not going to change. They are very organized and well structured.
    Baseball takes over in the spring and that's not going to change. It is also well organized and after most games drinks and hot dogs help the teams socialize and bond.
    Soccer has the most participation at U6 level than any other sport but we loose them very quickly. When the games are completed everyone is cold and takes off, there is no where for the teams too celebrate, talk and have a snack or hot drink(changing rooms). This creates better friendships and team bonding. A great example of the is the Meraloma Rugby Club, the clubhouse is a tradition that is past on to each generation.
    All Vancouver parks has changing rooms but they are never used. We have a huge volunteer pool that is untapped that could make sure the changing rooms are maintained and kept clean after each game.
    Some changing rooms are being used for artist. I'm not against that but they were build to support team sports and currently they are not being used.
    Talk and discussion with your team after each game will only help build the sport.
     

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