U13 Retreat Line

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by Coach Ian, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. Coach Ian

    Coach Ian Member

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    I have a huge concern about this rule being used correctly.

    BC Soccer mandates that at U13 a retreat line is used for goal kicks!

    It says that this Line will be 15 metres or 16.4 yards from the center line, when the field length is 90 Metres or 100 yards.

    The line will be 20 Metres or 21.8 yards from the center line, when the field length is
    120 metres or 131.2 yards.

    As I don't believe that there are any clubs out there, that have 120 metre fields, I think it's a given, that every team plays on a 90 metre or 100 yard Field! Therefore, the retreat line should be 20 metres or 16.8 yard!
    (Feel free to correct me if your team plays on a 131.2 yard field)

    I'm looking for consistency for the players here.

    Also, the retreat line for
    U13 as it states in the rules is for Goal Kicks Only!
    Don't confuse the
    U13 retreat line for the 8 aside rules, which also uses the retreat line as a offside line.

    Offside is at center!
    You can't be offside on your side of center!
    You can only be offside on the oppositions side of center!

    The last month, I have seen so much confusion and inconsistencies regarding these Rules.
    We played a tournament and the retreat line was 32 yards from center! I watched my team and other teams sit at the retreat line as it was placed too close and pick off goal kicks at will and hem the opposition in their 18 and come close or score at will. It was no fun for those teams that got beat up because of it.( I would even put conditions on my team to stop it from happening)

    It would be nice if all the Districts, put some communication out to all the teams and Referees, regarding this rule. But as we have seen much too often, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of communication to and from Districts, Clubs, Referees and teams.

    Maybe by me putting this out there, all teams, Referees, Clubs and districts will get at least one thing right for the players.

    Cheers,
    Ian



     
  2. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    ummmm, if the retreat line on a 100 yard pitch is to be at 16 yards that would put the retreat line INSIDE the 18....so where else is your oppo supposed to line-up to defend a goal kick?

    Communication from the districts is nice - but how about we actually educate our refs (this doesn't mean a 1 day course and a badge, FYI - you'd think this was obvious, but it's not).

    For all the things we try to fix in this province for soccer, it's our refs that are woefully under-served. They need more than some courses etc - they need on-field mentorship and feedback. The young lady we had last week was very poor, and I felt quite bad for her as it was clear she knew she didn't really know the rules.
     
  3. RRS

    RRS Member

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    I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning, so maybe I'm missing something, but i believe the OP mentioned that the distances referenced were "from the centre line", not the end line. So, on a 100-yard field, the retreat line is 16.4 yards from centre (34 yards out from goal).
     
  4. RRS

    RRS Member

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    Double-checking....you wrote in bold black "20 meters or 16.8 yards." Did you not mean "15 meters or 16.4 yards" ? Still waking up, so maybe I've misread it.
     
  5. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    if he meant from centre....than it is I who has not had enough coffee ;) I assumed OP just made a typo, TBH.

    For it's not so much the coaches that have to know all the rules from day 1, it's the refs who have to have the knowledge of the rules, and how to enforce them. After that the coaches will catch on VERY quickly.
     
  6. Coach Ian

    Coach Ian Member

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    I think there might be a couple of you that started reading before their morning coffee!
    It's quite clearly stated that the distance is from the center line
    it's also quite clearly stated that on a 90 metre field it's 15 metres! 90 metres = 100 yards 15 metres = 16.8 yards

    If you are on a 120 metre field it's 20 metres! 120 metres = 131.2 yards 20 metres = 21.8 yards

    I did have a typo in black bold it should say 15 metres

    So last night we have a game against Burnaby. Before we start the Ref comes over and says the retreat line is going to be this blue line on the field which they use for field Lacrosse.
    "I say that's not right BC," that's all I got out and he "say's your gone"! (The blue line he refers to is like 26 yards from center)
    But he say's"I won't put it in the game report if you leave now".
    My assistant goes over to the bench to grab the rule set out by BC soccer to show the Ref. he tells my assistant "you say one word and your gone too!"

    This guy is not interested in the rules, except what he is going to dictate, not what he is hired to enforce, but what he thinks it should be.

    I didn't argue with him, I left. Well when I say I left, I left Burnaby Lake fields. I watched from the pathway and Parking lot of 8 rinks. But I left the park!
    But I certainly wasn't going to ruin the experience, for my player's.
    The first time In 50 years I have ever been thrown out of a game.
    I don't abuse Refs. Period! I've been a Ref I know what it's like.
    I teach my player's not to argue with the Ref, he's not going to change his mind! (Mind you in this case if he actually took the time to read what the rule actually say's, he might have!)

    Am I going to file a complaint against this Referee? I don't think I'm going to file a complaint. I'm going to write a letter though!
    It's not like it was a judgement call like whether it was offside or a foul.
    I'm asking him of a interpretation of a rule. I'm willing to show him the rule and what it states, so that his interpretation is correct. He's not even interested in what it say's! i'll even go one further, HE DOESN'T CARE!!
    Maybe by writing a letter to Burnaby they will educate their Referee's to at least know the rules.
    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  7. Coach Ian

    Coach Ian Member

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    I totally disagree, it is the coaches responsibility to know the rules.You should know every rule.
    As a coach, it's equally important to to teach your players the skills of the game, as well as how to play the game. That includes the rules. If a team is consistently off-side by 10 yards, then they're not going to score many goals,which means they're not going to win many games.

    As a coach, you're not just a teacher of the game. You're also an advocate for them. If you don't have a rule book on your bench, then you're doing huge dis-service for your team.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  8. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    of course - but in this world of volunteers these mistakes happen. refs however are paid officials, and must know the rules, and thus enforce them accurately. if that happens the coaches will catch on quickly.

    ps-take a deep breath, Ian.
     
  9. southsloper

    southsloper Member

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    Hi Coach Ian, just curious as to what age group your team is, and the (approximate age) of the ref of that game? I assume at least U13+

     
  10. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I guess an example of why refs need to know and enforce the rules, thus educating players and parents.

    My own team down in Bellingham didn't know the retreat line was half (!!?? that's another topic for another day), but the ref enforced the rule, and the oppo coach helped out - sorted, and players understood. Same thing in our first game last week - my players, nor the oppo players knew the retreat line was also the offside line. The ref told both sets of players the rule, and they sorted it out on the field without any coach intervention.

    The refs are the key to these things.

    ps-yes, this means I didn't bother to tell my players the retreat line/offside rule ;) lol, in my defense I was more concerned with teaching them to pass a ball straight ;)
     
  11. Coach Ian

    Coach Ian Member

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    My team is U13. There is no retreat line after this age.
    The Ref he was in his 50's, I'd say.
    I have to admit he was always keeping up with the play and his effort was exemplary. I've seen and had Refs that rarely leave the center area.
    No need to. Again as I said, I'm not one to argue with the Ref. Whether he makes a good or bad call he's not going to change his decision, so what's the point!

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  12. Coach Ian

    Coach Ian Member

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    So here's an update to the retreat line follies.
    Game 2 was a home game and the retreat line is placed right.

    Game 3 is over in Sechelt . The Referee states that there is no retreat line for boys. That the retreat line is for girls only!
    As the game is almost over, the technical director for Sechelt shows up to the game and he asks me "where is the retreat line?" I tell him that according to the guy wearing yellow out on the field, it's for girls only!

    Game 4 is again over in Sechelt. Same team same field same time but different Referee.(the ref we had the week before in sechelt is a AR in this game! I might add that they are both adults).
    I ask this Referee where the retreat line is? To my surprise, this Referee is on the ball.... not.
    She say's to me, "I think we will use the top of the arc on the 18 yard box".
    I say to her, "That BC Soccer mandates it to be 15 meters from the center line."
    I know I'm dealing with no rocket scientist here, as the next words that come out of her mouth are,
    "Ya, we have no means of measuring that here".
    I say,"Well 15 meters is 16.4 yards. Why don't we pace off 16 paces and call it even!"
    Now the AR pipes up,( The previous weeks Referee) " ya we can do that!"
    (He actually paced off 22 yards, but hey, its the thought that counts!)

    Then the Referee pipes up again and say's, "Ya I don't believe in the retreat line, not at this age for boys!"
    I'm thinking in my mind, Lady nobody is is interested in what you think! Your'e paid to administer the rules as they are laid out in the rule book and that's it
    Next week should fine as it's our home game, thank Christ!

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  13. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    To be fair the rule states 15-20 meters. I guess there are some referees that may need a refresher.
     
  14. Coach Ian

    Coach Ian Member

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    To be fair it's 15 meters for a 90 meter field or 20 meters for a 120 meter field.
    As I have never ever in my 50 years of being involved in soccer seen a 120 meter field anywhere in the lower mainland, the rule then is 15 meters for a 90 meter field or 16.4 yards for a 100 yard field!

    Now I could be wrong and please correct me if I am, but does anyone here play on anything bigger than a 100 yard field?

    I didn't think so!
    Like I say the rule is 15 meters or 16.4 yards

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  15. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I have to laugh because I wasn't there!

    I had a similar experience with a 12 year old ref for my team of 11 year olds. We chatted about installing the cones to note the retreat line. It took a while but we got there although each half had the retreat line marked off at different locations ;) The folly of the game was that she didn't think fouls inside the box were PK's but that they were indirect free kicks. Funny stuff, in truth. The head ref was there - he educated her.

    In all seriousness - these are the kinds of stories that have to make their way to BCSA. They really are. Our game will not advance if the refs don't also know the rules and enforce them properly. They are an exceptionally integral part of player development as it relates to game-day experience and game-knowledge for the players.

    "I don't believe in the retreat line." LOL I Hope you politely remarked "and yet, it's the law of the game so where shall we place the markers?"
     
  16. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Can't recall any pitch bigger than 100 metres except possibly the grass pitches at Newton?
     
  17. Coach Ian

    Coach Ian Member

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    My compliments to North Vancouver, for the Referee and 2 AR's at our game yesterday. These 3 young men (young teenagers) were by far the best I have seen anywhere, in a long time.
    They were professional, they hustled and they were spot on, every call.
    They were accessible.
    But most of all, they didn't think, that they were bigger than the game, but part of the game!
    That's a quality you don't see too often any more.
    We need more officials like them!
    Was the retreat line where it should be? No, it wasn't. i'll leave it at that.

    These 3 lads need to be showcased as to how to manage a game!
    Well done North Van give yourself a big pat on the back, but give a bigger one to those 3!

    Cheers,
    Ian

    By the way it was the 2:30 game at William Griffin Park
     
  18. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    LOL this weekend for my u11 game I put the markers down as I always do in the same position. The young lady moved them. I asked her why she moved them to the wrong position. She told me the head ref who was there told her to move them. I put them at the 2/3 point of the pitch (the correct position) - basically exactly half way between the bottom of the centre circle and top of the box. She moved the markers to just about the bottom of the centre circle...on the direction of the clubs head ref who was present providing mentorship.

    Not very good when the head ref doesn't know the field marking rules ;) A minor detail in the grand scheme of ref education. But it's certainly a part of the ref education ;)

    I sent the head ref an email with a PDF of the BCSA rules, and the league rules match the BCSA rules :)

    TBF I actually liked the position the ref moved the cones to. Closer to centre. Didn't allow the striker to cherry pick. Didn't have the centre back sitting back on the retreat line just waiting to stop counter attacks. I think it made the game much better!
     
  19. Coach Ian

    Coach Ian Member

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    I believe for 8 aside the retreat line is 1/3 of each side of the pitch. Most 8 aside pitches are 50 yards so each half would be 25 yards so it would be 8.5 yards from center. Don't forget the retreat line in 8 aside is also the offside line as well.

    I agree the closer the line is to center the better then you don't have that poaching, it lets teams learn how to bring the ball out of the defensive end, which by the way is what it's meant to do.

    I have gone out and watched other teams play in the last couple of weeks and seen the retreat line 3 yards from the 18. the team that had the goal kicks couldn't get out of their half and were scored on, in almost every game I watched.

    I approached the referee after the games and asked why the retreat line was in so close? The best response was it's supposed to be 30 yards. When I showed him the rule he said he said, i'll have to look it up when I get home!

    I said I just showed you the rule on BC soccers web site. his response was ya you could have gotten that anywhere!:(
    Well I tried! I even gave him a copy of the rule. I've handed out 6 copies of the rule in 2 weeks.

    I can only hope that I will go to one of my away games before the end of the season and the rule will be carried out as it's meant to be. I don't have that problem at my home games. I do believe that it does say in the U13 retreat line that the retreat line can moved back farther. So less is more in this case. if its 16 yards your district can say they want it 10 yards. But they can't say we want it 20 yards, if you know what I mean. I don't think that option is available for 8 aside fields, though I could be wrong.
    I've contacted BC Soccer about the situation and they plan on educating the referee's for the clubs that I mentioned. I don't know why they wouldn't send some sort of communication out to everybody, at least they're willing to do something. At the very least it's a start!
    Maybe Doug Ross will see this and put something on the 4D site. I see they can put a blurb about fining the home districts $50.00 for teams that aren't reporting scores in a timely fashion.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  20. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Good morning Ian.

    Yes, I agree having the line "closer" to centre is better as it reduces poaching. But 8.5 metres would put the retreat line within the centre circle. So 8.5 metres won't be correct. If you divide 50 by 3 you get 16.6. So the 1/3 line would be where BCSA describes it in it's diagram - exactly half way between the goalie box (12 yards) and the centre circle.

    u11-12 don't have an "18." They have a "12" ;) 4-5 yards from the 12 makes sense. If teams can't successfully pass from the edge of the 12 to an open defender (typically there are 3) and then pass to a midfielder, across to one of the other open defenders, or back to the goalie who would of course be open, then that is a problem with that team, not the field markings. They clearly aren't learning how to "bring the ball out of their defensive end." The coach needs to answer some questions :) Teams in my u11 league have no issue playing out of the back, and we are not in the top tier of u11. The ball is being played GK to defender to midfield (or forward) generally with success - it's not always pretty, but turnovers on goal kicks by the defenders/GK have been rare, if at all, in the games I've coached this year (just under half our teams games).

    You showed the ref the BCSA PDF and he said you made it up!? My goodness.

    I don't know about u13 rules, but the BCSA and 3 District rules are the same - 1/3. Which on a 5 yard field is 16-17 yards from the goal line. I didn't read anything about the line being able to be moved. I don't know about the BCCSL retreat line rules - I assume they are the same as BCSA/3 District.
     

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