The pay to play model

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Admin, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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  2. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Pretty much what I have been saying about the Whitecaps/BCSPL partnership. Although the league is the right idea, it is not getting all of our best players, and if the Whitecaps/Canada want to benefit, truly benefit, it's time to step up financially.
     
  3. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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  4. Soccer-dad-NV

    Soccer-dad-NV Member

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    This article is points to the same issue here in Canada. I'd like to hear ideas on solutions rather than dwel on the problems. There are a lot of great minds with ideas I'm sure. The problem will always be the money. I'm sure there a number of coaches/parents and volunteers that would love to help. Unfortunately these poeople end up sacrificing there time for no money and end up getting burnt out and have to find a way to put food on their own tables. Another reason I'd love to win the lottery!
     
  5. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Solutions will have to be combined, complimentary, collaborative, and forward-thinking.

    1. Whitecaps need to chip in financially for BCSPL. They expect to get all the best players for free.
    2. BCSA and local clubs need to be finding sponsors to bring in funds for the various leagues - the issue being what do the sponsors get in return.
    2a. BC PTP has to be free for the players. BCSA brings in enough funds to cover this - Whitecaps can help fund this as they view it as an important assessment tool for them as well. Representing your province should never cost (unless you need to come in from out of town and stay in hotel - that's unavoidable).
    3. A Canadian Professional League has to start that pays fees to youth clubs when they sign their players, and percentages of sell-on fee's to those youth clubs when they inevitably sell some of those players to MLS, Europe, South America etc. You can be sure a CPL would find some players that the MLS teams missed, or blossomed later than others.
    4. Clubs need to streamline. We are getting way too carried away with home kits, away kits, practice kits, training shirts, travel shirts, uniforms, paid coaching academies etc etc etc. I've heard of one club having 3 separate training kits (or tops?). Go back to the days of uniforms being signed-out, and returned at the end of the year. Order a pile of spares/back-ups when inevitably shirts get lost/stolen/not returned. Change your club kits every 3 years(ish) as the availability of the current kits dwindles.
    5. Centralize leagues more! There's absolutely no reason a bronze team should be driving over 30-45 minutes for a game. Ever. Silver teams probably should have similar distances. Gold, MSL, BCSPL need to expand geographics to increase competition, fair enough, and unavoidable in our province/country.
    6. Kids age 12 and under should not be driving more than 30 minutes to a game (even this is too long but unavoidable in some cities). Ever. Even in the FV where clubs are a bigger distance apart. Improve the quality of local play and coaches. You'll see improvement of players regardless of opponent. The games are only an hour for goodness sake, and most kids only play a portion of the game time. More time in a car than on the field is bad! Even Surrey, absolutely no need for them to play outside the city of Surrey under the age of 12 even though Delta, White Rock are close. I am saying kids under age of 12, so to be specific I am referring to u13 (and maybe u14 should get the same rules!). Rearrange the leagues even more geographically. No reason for Chilliwack and TSA to be in the same league, for example (under MSL level I suppose).
    7. Change league formats to jamborees. Eliminate the Euro-style 1 game/weekend for kids under age 13. Go jamboree. Bring clubs together to central location every 2 weeks. Rotate the host city for these. Enter tournaments/jamborees to expose your kids to other cities competition.
     
  6. Ryan

    Ryan Member

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    Great points made. I do feel, however, that all out of town expenses should covered for the players. Parents can foot their own bills should they want to come along. In sport, all players should be equal regardless of their financial situations.
     
  7. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    I tend to agree with pretty much every point you make.

    On point 4 regarding kits and the like, one issue that puts pressure on clubs to have the best kit is the brands changing their cycles of certain lines... 3 years sounds great in theory but you will have an issue finding replacements and fill-ins when the particular style you want and buy into are only offered on a 2 year cycle. And even that isn't guaranteed - I've seen more than once that a big name brand has discontinued a style half-way through the cycle they said it would be available.

    For points #1 and #2, don't get me started on what I think about that :mad:
     
  8. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    That's what I was trying to say about travel being unavoidable. For example, if a kid from Williams Lake is good enough for the PTP (as of right now can a kid from Williams Lake even get on the PTP? different discussion) the hotel fees etc are not up to BCSA for him or the parents. I am referring to registration, uniforms, etc. BCSA should be covering cost of flights for these players to nationals, and tournaments etc as well.
     
  9. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Ok 2 years! No worries ;)

    haha, let's hear about 1 and 2!!! Those really are the hot button discussions. Sponsors are easier said than done....but if there's no one really trying....Langley now has a sponsor, Abby did for a while, of course CMF has for many years....but I have no clue how financially beneficial those sponsorships were.
     
  10. FB1

    FB1 Member

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    Good thoughts. Just add my two cents.

    Kits costs aren't as big a deal as you might think. Particularly for larger clubs. The clubs don't pay the retail price, they get huge volume discounts. It's been some years since I was involved in this end of things, but we could get a shirt from a major supplier for $9 when the volume was high. For these same larger clubs, managing a kit inventory would be logistic nightmare. And in this era of ever dwindling volunteerism, a club would likely need to staff the position.

    Whitecaps should be paying developmental fees to youth clubs. When Doneil Henry signed with West Ham his youth club in Ontario received funds. This is actually a FIFA requirement. The Whitecaps, as a professional organization affiliated with FIFA via the CSA and BCSA should be forced to follow those regulations. I can't imagine it would be a ton of money, but clubs could earmark those fund directly into HP programming that would offset costs to player/families somewhat.

    Sponsorship is a tough nut to crack. I've tried. Not easy in this market. Too many organizations out there trying to get their hands on limited bucks. Sponsorship is actually easier to source in smaller communities. Sponsorship in youth soccer amounts to nothing more than a goodwill gesture by a business. There's limited tangible benefit for a business to sponsor.

    Your points on leagues are completely spot on. Particularly at the "grassroots" level, as BCSA has now defined what we would use to call recreational.
     
  11. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I know kit costs aren't a big deal in the grand scheme. But let's remove as many barriers as possible - and stop spoiling the kids at the same time. They aren't mini professionals, and our NFP clubs are not professional academies.

    Sponsorship definitely difficult.
     
  12. Ryan

    Ryan Member

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    I've been in situations where good players didn't even tryout for "reprerational" teams due to the cost of extra kit. Youth sports are too exclusionary at too young an age. Kids should be able to play at a competitive level that suits their skills and aptitude without having to consider cost.
     
  13. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    I don't think its just about costs, its the attitude of the parents and where they prioritize the sport in both their life and the child's life. There are many talented kids who simply do not play because their parents don't want to commit to 2-3 days a week, driving around town, standing in the rain etc.. I have two kids on my team that don't play if I don't pick them up for practice and games cause the parents wont do it.. Reprerational as you put is all about mindset , only way to change it is to change the mindset .There is an exclusive element to rep level sports that is unavoidable, talent difference alone creates that. Parents will pay extra as long as the feel they get extra ( better coaching, staff coaching etc) All inclusive is recreational ....I am going off on a whole other tangent here..

    Kits help provide the kids with a since of belonging , pride and accomplishment For all U8-U12 development teams they should be included same for U13+ BCSPL . Metro and Div 1. ( by kit
    I mean Game Jersey, Game Shorts, socks, Training Jacket, training shirt, training pants and maybe a bag, with a rain jacket optional) I believe it can be done with little extra cost its just a matter of budget management, fund raising etc..
     
  14. Ryan

    Ryan Member

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    Sure that comes into play as well but I'm talking only about finances. One of my most dedicated families was one of the poorest families I've ever coached. In my experience, the parents that are willing to simply toss money at their child's sports are less involved. Poor does not equal lazy.

    Simply buying things for your kids doesn't make them belong to something. Training and accomplishment binds them together. You create division through resentment when you ask parents to fundraise when they would rather just write a cheque. They all know who cant afford the extra training kit.
     
  15. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    Some of the best players I coached come from poor families as well. I have found that when "some" of these families get a free ride the comittment drops. The mindset becomes that their kid is special and if you want them you give rides, you comp reg fees, leave them out of extra tournament or training fees, forgive lateness or abscences.

    If they cant afford to pay the family should be required to volunteer in some way. This way it will be respected more.

    Again, not all kids and families are like this, but I have encountered it on more than one occasion.

    Everyone should be able to play if the desire and comittment is there. If you dont show it I would drop you. If you show it I would do everything in my power to help.
     
  16. Ryan

    Ryan Member

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    I respect what you are saying. I just think as a community we need to be more mindful of the unnecessary financial barriers we are putting on our players and their families. Many of the best players in the world got to where they are without flashy kits.
     
  17. Soccer-dad-NV

    Soccer-dad-NV Member

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    I think you need to be careful when making some of these statements. If someone was helping to take my kid to practice,games and helping with the costs involved I'd appreciete it no doubt. It would also allow me to work a few more hours at my low paying job to put food on the table. Sometimes kids have to miss practice to watch thier siblings, work etc, etc. Not many kids or families are going to try to explain this yo a soccer coach no matter how close you are to them.
     
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  18. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I have a kid on my team who was playing with his toes showing through his shoes. I took him out and bought him a new pair.

    If you have a comitted player who is having financial difficulty then it is reasonable to think the club or even the team could help with the cost of a kit.

    The player could possibly even ref in his/her free time to make a few bucks.
     
  19. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I wouldnt say it if I wasnt completely sure about it. Thanks.

    In your case certainly you or your child would say thank you. And you would make sure to ask for the rides or notify if you couldnt make a practice?

    I covered the registration of a player for 2 years. He was new from Ghana. Poor family. I gave him rides or had another parent help for that whole time.

    Not a single thanks in that time. Would never call or ask for a ride just expected it.

    Yes. He was a great player. But at some point you have to assess and realize no one is above the team.

    He just stopped showing up one day. Decided to play football instead. 2 months later begged to come back. My team was full and I realized how much free time I had now that I wasnt supportin him.

    And they purchased a large house and are better off than I am now.

    So like I said help those who are willing to help themselves and also who are respectful and appreciative of the help.

    I would also add that I have seen many players in Newton comped and given free rides because they are great players and this is not because of money but coaches enticing players over to their team.
     
  20. Soccer-dad-NV

    Soccer-dad-NV Member

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    I think most clubs would and do help some of these players and have allotted funds to do so. It is hard to sometimes get the word out to these families that these programs exist. You sometimes have to prove you fall below the poverty line by way of a recent tax return. There are those families unfortunatley feel that providing those records are more than they are willing to or can provide for thier own reasons.
     

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