5 District Schedules for 2016-2017?

easoccer · Sep 17, 2016

Before the league changed from silver/gold to div 1/2 there was a basic formula.

Tiering is a basic part of sports. I think it plays an important role.

I didnt request relegation after 1 game. I said after the request was made, it took one game to happen.

We can disagree all day.

Good luck in the rain today. We're heading out to the ridge if the fields dont get rained out.

TKBC · Sep 17, 2016

@ea - you and I agree some teams should be dropped (and promoted!) but I am simply saying it can't be based solely on results.

cat · Sep 17, 2016

Thank you @easoccer and @TKBC, and we are going to ask our club to move us down as soon as possible.

4_the_kids · Sep 19, 2016

I agree with the tiering and reassessment but I think Thanksgiving is to early to make such an assessment. For example the competition a team played against should be part of the consideration, a middle of pack team could play the 3 or 4 top teams and loose by a large margin as an example. I played week 1 with 1 sub due to lingering vacations and illness. you think the result of that game has any relevance? Debating the movement at a meeting seems right , for District 5 it should be done after Dec when the champion series and cup play starts as that is the intent of the Sept to Dec play...
Now being misplaced is another story all together... I believe the rule of thumb is a lower div team should loose 8 or more out of 10 against a higher div team.

easoccer · Sep 19, 2016

I think if you have 12 games before cup then 4 game intervals would be ideal. But its more work for the schedulers.

4_the_kids · Sep 19, 2016

There is no perfect system. I had a U11 team put in Div 1 when it was a div 2 team, after being blown out in 2 games I asked to moved down to div 2 which I was granted , we lost the next 2 games by 1 and 2 goals. Thanksgiving came , district saw it as loosing first 4 games moved us to div 3, I protested this move but lost. We won every game in Div 3 by no less then 3 goals. As it was U11 I just took advantage of the opportunity to work on more stuff, we went on to play tournaments at div 2 level with a winning record. Point of the story is it shows how the system can be flawed.

easoccer · Sep 19, 2016

Yes. Certainly a clubs technical staff should be involved and proper evaluations done.

On top of tiering I also believe teams should be rebuilt yearly. Like in baseball and hockey. To ensure balanced teams and divisions.

But thats for another thread.

TKBC · Sep 19, 2016

4_the_kids said:
I agree with the tiering and reassessment but I think Thanksgiving is to early to make such an assessment. For example the competition a team played against should be part of the consideration, a middle of pack team could play the 3 or 4 top teams and loose by a large margin as an example. I played week 1 with 1 sub due to lingering vacations and illness. you think the result of that game has any relevance? Debating the movement at a meeting seems right , for District 5 it should be done after Dec when the champion series and cup play starts as that is the intent of the Sept to Dec play...
.

Indeed. I remember losing 7-0 on opening day. Had 10 players on the pitch. But maybe 8-9 actually fit. Away game. Is it fair to assess the team on that 1 result which may have seriously skewed things?

I agree with changes after Christmas - but that's exactly what is done with the cups. Teams are tiered and often the top silver/bottom gold are in the same group, which is great.

TKBC · Sep 19, 2016

easoccer said:
I think if you have 12 games before cup then 4 game intervals would be ideal. But its more work for the schedulers.

I've proposed 6-team leagues. Play each team once. then re-tier. Some teams will be in the same division for all 15 games but you'll have a balanced/competitive season. 15 game season.

TKBC · Sep 19, 2016

4_the_kids said:
There is no perfect system. I had a U11 team put in Div 1 when it was a div 2 team, after being blown out in 2 games I asked to moved down to div 2 which I was granted , we lost the next 2 games by 1 and 2 goals. Thanksgiving came , district saw it as loosing first 4 games moved us to div 3, I protested this move but lost. We won every game in Div 3 by no less then 3 goals. As it was U11 I just took advantage of the opportunity to work on more stuff, we went on to play tournaments at div 2 level with a winning record. Point of the story is it shows how the system can be flawed.

And proves you can't judge teams based on results alone. You simply can't. Youth soccer is way too fluid to judge teams on results alone.

TKBC · Sep 19, 2016

easoccer said:
Yes. Certainly a clubs technical staff should be involved and proper evaluations done.

On top of tiering I also believe teams should be rebuilt yearly. Like in baseball and hockey. To ensure balanced teams and divisions.

But thats for another thread.

Can't do that if you are only getting 15-20 kids at a tryout. But, I suspect in this regard you are mostly referring to Surrey. Heard plenty of rumours that they don't even do trials/assessments. Just let coaches pick their own teams.

rich · Sep 19, 2016

TKBC said:
And proves you can't judge teams based on results alone. You simply can't. Youth soccer is way too fluid to judge teams on results alone.

So true. Many moons ago, in U13 Silver we started the season 1W, 1D, 2L. Our win was against W Van, 11-0. End of the season, WVan was in first place, we were second, and WVan handily dealt with us in our 2nd meeting.

A four game run in to Thanksgiving doesn't give the breadth of results, unless there is a 4-0 or 0-4 team. So many variables.

I believe there was talk about re-tiering at Halloween this year, instead of Thanksgiving, but I don't know if that was just a suggestion or will actually happen.

TKBC · Sep 19, 2016

rich said:
So true. Many moons ago, in U13 Silver we started the season 1W, 1D, 2L. Our win was against W Van, 11-0. End of the season, WVan was in first place, we were second, and WVan handily dealt with us in our 2nd meeting.

A four game run in to Thanksgiving doesn't give the breadth of results, unless there is a 4-0 or 0-4 team. So many variables.

I believe there was talk about re-tiering at Halloween this year, instead of Thanksgiving, but I don't know if that was just a suggestion or will actually happen.

Even 0-4 and 4-0 don't give an accurate picture oftentimes. Have seen 4-0 finish mid-table, crash out of cup to silver teams, have seen 0-4 teams do the opposite.

Just like your story of destroying a team then getting beat by them later. Team-by-team decisions and hopefully the TD knows the capabilities of the team (not always possible just 4 games into a season when a TD can only be one place at at time).

4_the_kids · Sep 19, 2016

The key is honest evaluation of the teams prior to season and coach feedback through out. And honesty is the toughest part of it all, with egos and such getting involved. With that look at the schedules and you will see a lack of balance among each division , this is a result of clubs pushing teams up when we should be making harder to move up ,each division needs to be more competitive and each year the quality should be increasing.
Some examples
U13 - 18 Div. 1, 22 div 2 , 12 Div 3 and 28 div 4 - it probably should be more like 16-18-18-28 or 20 in each...
U14 - DIv. 1 20 , Div 2 - 10??? - Think you get the point...

Admin · Sep 19, 2016

IMHO, tiering so early in the season takes the onus off of the clubs to properly submit teams to the proper divisions.

easoccer · Sep 19, 2016

If they had G1, G2, S1, S2, etc then I think they would be more inclined to do so. As others have said, the divisions are too big with too large a disparity from top to bottom.

rich · Sep 19, 2016

easoccer said:
If they had G1, G2, S1, S2, etc then I think they would be more inclined to do so. As others have said, the divisions are too big with too large a disparity from top to bottom.

This makes sense, however, in that scenario, the clubs would still have to accurately submit their teams. Could submit 4 G2 teams and no G1. No perfect scenario, but there needs to be one that makes more sense. It's always strange to me that some teams are shuffled up or down when others that appear more obvious are left where they are.

Ah well. Can't solve all the world's problems in one day. Gotta leave something for November...

TKBC · Sep 19, 2016

4_the_kids said:
The key is honest evaluation of the teams prior to season and coach feedback through out. And honesty is the toughest part of it all, with egos and such getting involved. With that look at the schedules and you will see a lack of balance among each division , this is a result of clubs pushing teams up when we should be making harder to move up ,each division needs to be more competitive and each year the quality should be increasing.
Some examples
U13 - 18 Div. 1, 22 div 2 , 12 Div 3 and 28 div 4 - it probably should be more like 16-18-18-28 or 20 in each...
U14 - DIv. 1 20 , Div 2 - 10??? - Think you get the point...

Divisions should be max 10. Why have 15-16+ teams when you only play 12 or so league games.

TKBC · Sep 19, 2016

easoccer said:
If they had G1, G2, S1, S2, etc then I think they would be more inclined to do so. As others have said, the divisions are too big with too large a disparity from top to bottom.

They are correct for the most part. Smaller, competitive divisions (not unlike the 6 team league cup groups) is ideal.

LFC · Sep 19, 2016

Admin said:
IMHO, tiering so early in the season takes the onus off of the clubs to properly submit teams to the proper divisions.

The 5 Dist Leage Board definitely needs to assess & tier the boys U18 groups .

U18 U18 Div 1 - 7 Teams
U18 U18 Div 2 - 14 Teams
U18 U18 Div 4 - 16 Teams

There are at least 4 -5 teams in Div 2 that should be playing in Div 1 and as they have not taken that responsibility , the 5 Dist should step in and move them up .

I believe there are strong teams in Div 4 as well who should not be there and will run up the scores in some games

5 District Schedules for 2016-2017?

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